wis.gator_old
(assuming it passes), what should a person who doesn't have coverage do?

Go out and get coverage, or pay the fine (tax) of $750?

I would go with the fine, but damn... that's like my whole tax refund. So, I essentially have no tax refund.
PSN: wisgator
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alandoamazing
Move to Nebraska and go on medicaid.
A pessimist is always alone. An optimist is always just two people away from a threesome.
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crusaderpride
Someone has to challenge this in court right? Or has that already been done?

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paladium
Alando=Amazing wrote:


Move to Nebraska and go on medicaid.


My biggest problem is that I cannot move to Canada because they are even further down the path of socialized health care.

Anyone up for invading some third-world Caribbean Island and creating a new country?
The Brewers will finish 90-72 and earn the #1 WC berth.

Carlos Gomez will have a 30/40 season (HR/SB) and win a 2nd Gold Glove en route to an All Star selection.
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brewcitylegend
I honestly do not see the problem with socialized health care. Everyone gets on. Everyone gets care - even preventitive care. These "long lines" BS are the rare nightmares in other countries. Socialized medicine is no worse than the system we have now where everyone's rates go up 30 percent a year or more.

Thankfully, I don't make enough money for my family of 3 that we are on BadgerCare through the state. The only problem with that is if we go to get care at certain clinics or hospitals, they freak out and make you do extra paperwork and see extra doctors. But at least I don't pay anything. Which is the way it should be for everyone.
"Hero's will be remembered, but Legends never die..."-The Sandlot
Brew City Legend: est. 2003
-WSN Hall of Fame Class of 2005 (Inaugural Class)
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alandoamazing
Brew City Legend wrote:


I honestly do not see the problem with socialized health care. Everyone gets on. Everyone gets care - even preventitive care. These "long lines" BS are the rare nightmares in other countries. Socialized medicine is no worse than the system we have now where everyone's rates go up 30 percent a year or more.

Thankfully, I don't make enough money for my family of 3 that we are on BadgerCare through the state. The only problem with that is if we go to get care at certain clinics or hospitals, they freak out and make you do extra paperwork and see extra doctors. But at least I don't pay anything. Which is the way it should be for everyone.



The long lines "BS" isn't BS at all. If medical care costs nothing, people go to the ER for everything. Not to mention, this absolutely kills the medical profession. We will only end up with less innovation, shitty doctors, and shitty nurses. If there is no monetary incentive to pay for 8 years of schooling, smart people will not go into that field. Not to mention having to abide by a ton of regulations.

The innovation in medical science comes out of the private sector. We need a private healthcare system in order to be able to provide good healthcare. Other countries systems live off of the innovation in this country. Also, anything run by the government leads to massive waste and massive incompetence.

The bottom line is, the government is not meant to provide services to the extent that it does. It was not created to do the things it does now, and nothing the government does is done well.
A pessimist is always alone. An optimist is always just two people away from a threesome.
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hickorycornhusker
Alando=Amazing wrote:


Brew City Legend wrote:


I honestly do not see the problem with socialized health care. Everyone gets on. Everyone gets care - even preventitive care. These "long lines" BS are the rare nightmares in other countries. Socialized medicine is no worse than the system we have now where everyone's rates go up 30 percent a year or more.

Thankfully, I don't make enough money for my family of 3 that we are on BadgerCare through the state. The only problem with that is if we go to get care at certain clinics or hospitals, they freak out and make you do extra paperwork and see extra doctors. But at least I don't pay anything. Which is the way it should be for everyone.



The long lines "BS" isn't BS at all. If medical care costs nothing, people go to the ER for everything. Not to mention, this absolutely kills the medical profession. We will only end up with less innovation, ****ty doctors, and ****ty nurses. If there is no monetary incentive to pay for 8 years of schooling, smart people will not go into that field. Not to mention having to abide by a ton of regulations.

The innovation in medical science comes out of the private sector. We need a private healthcare system in order to be able to provide good healthcare. Other countries systems live off of the innovation in this country. Also, anything run by the government leads to massive waste and massive incompetence.

The bottom line is, the government is not meant to provide services to the extent that it does. It was not created to do the things it does now, and nothing the government does is done well.


Just look at the DMV. Do you really want the people who came up with that well running machine to be taking care of your health?
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dfnewburry
Brew City Legend wrote:


I honestly do not see the problem with socialized health care. Everyone gets on. Everyone gets care - even preventitive care. These "long lines" BS are the rare nightmares in other countries. Socialized medicine is no worse than the system we have now where everyone's rates go up 30 percent a year or more.

Thankfully, I don't make enough money for my family of 3 that we are on BadgerCare through the state. The only problem with that is if we go to get care at certain clinics or hospitals, they freak out and make you do extra paperwork and see extra doctors. But at least I don't pay anything. Which is the way it should be for everyone.


Giving away freebies is how we got into this mess . Creating a program without the funding as first objective is criminal and tyrannical .

Tax everyone the same rate for the same care with absolutely no exemptions including federal employees who have exempted themselves from this new so called heath reform and taxes and then we will have done something .

I never thought I would see the day that Sarah Palin looks less scary than Barry Obama and his army of drones .

Let's see if the House Dems has the gonads to stand up to Barry and company .








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crusaderpride
Why is the ability to purchase insurance across state lines not included in this bill? Could someone provide a reason why this wouldn't be a good thing?

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crusaderpride
dfnewburry wrote:


Brew City Legend wrote:


I honestly do not see the problem with socialized health care. Everyone gets on. Everyone gets care - even preventitive care. These "long lines" BS are the rare nightmares in other countries. Socialized medicine is no worse than the system we have now where everyone's rates go up 30 percent a year or more.

Thankfully, I don't make enough money for my family of 3 that we are on BadgerCare through the state. The only problem with that is if we go to get care at certain clinics or hospitals, they freak out and make you do extra paperwork and see extra doctors. But at least I don't pay anything. Which is the way it should be for everyone.


Giving away freebies is how we got into this mess . Creating a program without the funding as first objective is criminal and tyrannical .

Tax everyone the same rate for the same care with absolutely no exemptions including federal employees who have exempted themselves from this new so called heath reform and taxes and then we will have done something .

I never thought I would see the day that Sarah Palin looks less scary than Barry Obama and his army of drones .

Let's see if the House Dems has the gonads to stand up to Barry and company .


Stupak claims he has 40 Dems who will not budge on the abortion issue. We'll see if that holds true.

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wis.gator_old
With how it's currently written in this 2,300 page monstrosity, I don't think insurance companies can discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions.

What an abysmal way to go about business. I don't know how the insurance companies go about setting their health care premiums, but for life insurance it's via actuarial factors and the rate of return they can achieve on investments. I can't imagine it's a whole lot different, but I'm not sure.

Ethically it makes sense though. Insurance companies will no longer be able to cherry-pick risk-averse individuals. They won't be able to hike up premiums, and they'll have to accept people that would ordinarily fail their initial eye tests. This is a huge problem for these companies though. I'm no investment professional, but I know they'll have to find securities that will be able to get them even higher returns so they can prepare for more future settlements.

Imagine if there was a public option. All the sick would go there, and the government would definitely have a mess on their hands. How would they combat an influx of settlements? Sell more TBonds? Become even more leveraged?


PSN: wisgator
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longball12
As an Insurance Professional, I would tell you to pray it doesn't go through. A small business will now have the ability to stop providing health benefits to its employees and pay an 8% penalty. For some small businesses, health benefits is the largest expense. By declining to offer this benefit, they save a crapload of money.

Also, socialized healthcare being run by the same people who have screwed up Medicare and Social Security? For those of you for a universal healthcare plan, you will now get to see this country crumble. Hope it doesn't pass all the way through. We're making 85% of the people in this great nation cover the butts of the 15% who do not have healthcare. As a taxpayer, this is a nightmare. I just think it is so funny how all these people think it will be such a great thing.

I have something for you. Ask your State Rep if they are going to take the State/Countrywide Health Care option when it passes, or if they will stay with their cushy government plan that they have now. I bet you have 0 of them that choose to take the plan. They are not stupid. We're a nation that just VOTED to INCREASE our national debt to something like $12trillion. We're not intelligent, and this healthcare plan will be the final straw in a crappy developed hat, which of course will soon be made in China. Start exchanging your US dollars for Yen.
Proud And Loving Father Of An Angel Named Derek - 8/4/13

Twitter - @iamlongball
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mrmike527
Longball, your post would have made a lot more sense about a month ago in response to the House Bill than it does now in response to the Senate Bill. The House really cannot pass through any sort of legislation on this topic, it can only block stuff it doesn't like from the Senate. Because the Senate is the chamber that can filibuster, it will have its way on pretty much anything excluding matters of appropriations.

The State/Countrywide option? There is no public option in this plan, and even the public option compromises (Medicare offered ten years younger) have been excluded. The debt ceiling was raised to accomodate the short term, but the CBO estimates that the plan overall will reduce the deficit $1 Trillion over the next decade (and another Trillion over the following decade, but that's probably moot because things don't tend to sit unchanged for twenty years).

The thing I'm most surprised by is that people are against the mandate to buy insurance. When people don't buy insurance, that adds a massive cost onto those who do. If you are a healthy person and say "I don't need insurance, I won't get sick!" and then you break your hand, the smart decision for you to make would be to buy insurance and then go to the doctor. This sort of thing forces those with insurance to subsisdize those without insurance.

Then again, finding a way to ration care would have made the most sense--but god forbid people change anything major in order to both lower prices and maintain high level of care.

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