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formerwiacbaseballer
mickjagger wrote:
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
mickjagger wrote:
blade12 wrote:
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
Forgot to mention, UWO AD Sims is a football guy having played at UW so it should come as no surprise that a lot of efforts are going towards the football program.

It would be quite ironic if he ended up being the fall guy as far as administration goes if they ever got to the bottom of the money issue.....


Agreed. It is the Richter/Alvarez model - build Football and have it help fund everything else... Hard to argue with the results, based on how stable UW athletics are now.

I'd like to see UW bring back some of the sports it cut to stay afloat (Baseball, etc), and hope UWO doesn't go the same route in that respect.

BTW, WIAC, you must have had interaction with Lechnir in your playing days. What's your take?

People either love him or hate him.... There doesn't seem to be many in between.


I certainly did not play for nor do i know Lechnir. Sounds like the kind of coach you hate when you play for him but 10-15 years later you respect a lot more for what he taught you.

In recent seasons, Lechnir has acquired many detractors in relation to his coaching methods. Speculation abounds that the success of the UWO baseball program has fallen off because the quality of recruits has diminished due to that perception. Just sayin'.

I know you bolded speculation, but in my opinion I think A LOT has to do with the fact that guys like Coach Bloom and Coach Vodenlich are working the recruiting trails just as hard as Coach Lechnir these days. In years past, Coach Lechnir was "ahead of the game" when it came to recruiting and the results showed it.

No doubt. Lechnir, more or less, had his pick of the litter in the state of Wisconsin for several years, especially during the glory days of the program (1990's and early 2000's). Lechnir's biggest competitor for in-state talent was probably UW-Milwaukee, the state's only D-1 program. Certainly the UW-Whitewater & UW-Stevens Point baseball programs have caught up or possibly even surpassed the UWO program on the recruiting trail. The success of the UWW & UWSP programs on the diamond in the past 10 yrs has undoubtedly contributed to their recruiting success. The question becomes: Which came first .... the chicken or the egg? Did success by UWW & UWSP breed better recruiting or did better recruiting breed success? Did some of the negative publicized UWO baseball events (see below) contribute to a drop-off in recruiting quality by the Lechnir & the Titans, yielding a piece of their recruiting dominance to schools like UWW & UWSP? Or, did the success of the UWW & UWSP programs, in and by itself, put a dent in UWO's recruiting edge? Perhaps it was a combination of both.

IMO, UWO's program, in its heyday, was impacted greatly by great pitching. This is certainly an area where the Titans have fallen off. UWSP & UWW have caught up & problaby surpassed the Titans, in recent seasons, in terms of talent on the mound.

An excerpt from an internet blog, dated April 27, 2005, referencing a couple of UWO baseball developments that did not reflect well on Coach Lechnir and his baseball program at UWO:

"Finally, there is the seemingly endless behavior of Tom Lechnir, UWO head baseball coach for the past 13 years.

First, there were the allegations of both physical and verbal abuse from former player Eric Servais in 2001.

Then, most shockingly, there was the ?base brawl? last season during the second game of a doubleheader versus UW-Whitewater. Lechnir and former Milwaukee Brewer reliever Doug Henry were identified as the two primary figures in the incident."

I would actually argue that Carthage College was UWO's biggest competitor on the recruiting trail years ago, and not UW Milwaukee. They were a fixture at the College World Series in the 1990's, and had a roster littered with players from the Fox Valley (Dean Muthig, Gavin Winfield, Glenn Braun, Justin Hallock, etc..). Is it just coincidence that BOTH programs (UWO and Carthage) have seen a drop in success at the same time while Whitewater and Stevens Point have seen an increase in success?

One thing that I have always thought played a part in the drop in success at UWO was the 1999 MLB Amateur Draft. Oshkosh set a NCAA Division III record having five players selected that year, which rivaled the numbers of some Division One programs. Four of the five players were underclassmen, which may have forced UWO to play some players that weren't ready in 2000.

Lastly, who was author of the above Internet blog?
"Let's Play Two!!!"

Baseball is not a game that builds character, it is a game that reveals it.

"There are three types of baseball players: those who make things happen, those who watch it happen, and those who wonder what happened."
Quote 0 0
mickjagger
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
mickjagger wrote:
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
mickjagger wrote:
blade12 wrote:
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
Forgot to mention, UWO AD Sims is a football guy having played at UW so it should come as no surprise that a lot of efforts are going towards the football program.

It would be quite ironic if he ended up being the fall guy as far as administration goes if they ever got to the bottom of the money issue.....


Agreed. It is the Richter/Alvarez model - build Football and have it help fund everything else... Hard to argue with the results, based on how stable UW athletics are now.

I'd like to see UW bring back some of the sports it cut to stay afloat (Baseball, etc), and hope UWO doesn't go the same route in that respect.

BTW, WIAC, you must have had interaction with Lechnir in your playing days. What's your take?

People either love him or hate him.... There doesn't seem to be many in between.


I certainly did not play for nor do i know Lechnir. Sounds like the kind of coach you hate when you play for him but 10-15 years later you respect a lot more for what he taught you.

In recent seasons, Lechnir has acquired many detractors in relation to his coaching methods. Speculation abounds that the success of the UWO baseball program has fallen off because the quality of recruits has diminished due to that perception. Just sayin'.

I know you bolded speculation, but in my opinion I think A LOT has to do with the fact that guys like Coach Bloom and Coach Vodenlich are working the recruiting trails just as hard as Coach Lechnir these days. In years past, Coach Lechnir was "ahead of the game" when it came to recruiting and the results showed it.

No doubt. Lechnir, more or less, had his pick of the litter in the state of Wisconsin for several years, especially during the glory days of the program (1990's and early 2000's). Lechnir's biggest competitor for in-state talent was probably UW-Milwaukee, the state's only D-1 program. Certainly the UW-Whitewater & UW-Stevens Point baseball programs have caught up or possibly even surpassed the UWO program on the recruiting trail. The success of the UWW & UWSP programs on the diamond in the past 10 yrs has undoubtedly contributed to their recruiting success. The question becomes: Which came first .... the chicken or the egg? Did success by UWW & UWSP breed better recruiting or did better recruiting breed success? Did some of the negative, well-publicized UWO baseball events (see below) contribute to a drop-off in recruiting quality by the Lechnir & the Titans, yielding a piece of their recruiting dominance to schools like UWW & UWSP? Or, did the success of the UWW & UWSP programs, in and by itself, put a dent in UWO's recruiting edge? Perhaps it was a combination of both.

IMO, UWO's program, in its heyday, was impacted greatly by great pitching. This is certainly an area where the Titans have fallen off. UWSP & UWW have caught up & problaby surpassed the Titans, in recent seasons, in terms of talent on the mound.

An excerpt from an internet blog, dated April 27, 2005, referencing a couple of UWO baseball developments that did not reflect well on Coach Lechnir and his baseball program at UWO:

"Finally, there is the seemingly endless behavior of Tom Lechnir, UWO head baseball coach for the past 13 years.

First, there were the allegations of both physical and verbal abuse from former player Eric Servais in 2001.

Then, most shockingly, there was the ?base brawl? last season during the second game of a doubleheader versus UW-Whitewater. Lechnir and former Milwaukee Brewer reliever Doug Henry were identified as the two primary figures in the incident."

I would actually argue that Carthage College was UWO's biggest competitor on the recruiting trail years ago, and not UW Milwaukee. They were a fixture at the College World Series in the 1990's, and had a roster littered with players from the Fox Valley (Dean Muthig, Gavin Winfield, Glenn Braun, Justin Hallock, etc..). Is it just coincidence that BOTH programs (UWO and Carthage) have seen a drop in success at the same time while Whitewater and Stevens Point have seen an increase in success?

One thing that I have always thought played a part in the drop in success at UWO was the 1999 MLB Amateur Draft. Oshkosh set a NCAA Division III record having five players selected that year, which rivaled the numbers of some Division One programs. Four of the five players were underclassmen, which may have forced UWO to play some players that weren't ready in 2000.

Lastly, who was author of the above Internet blog?

Kinda forgot about Carthage. The private school in Kenosha did draw some Fox Valley players, no doubt. But the majority of their rosters, as I recall, were affluent, suburban, Chicago kids.

No, I do not believe it is sheer coincidence that UWO's & Carthage's decline occurred at the same time with UWW & UWSP's ascent in college baseball in Wisconsin. As I stated in the above-post, the only question in my mind has to do with cause & effect or, metphorically, which came 1st, the chicken or the egg ..... ?

Here is the the link to the aforementioned blog:
http://61-327.blogspot.com/2005/04/profile-final.html
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
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formerwiacbaseballer
A Carthage Alum posted this earlier in the year on another site I occasionally visit. Take it for what it is worth, but I would think he would have a better idea of the Carthage rosters back then since he was a player in the 90's.

Interesting note is that both Carthage and Oshkosh started to slide a bit at the same time(early 2000s). Their rosters were full of players from the Fox Valley area (including Appleton). Around that time, both Point and Whitewater started to expand their recruiting into the Fox Valley which drastically hurt both Carthage and Oshkosh as it provided two more national powers chasing the same top kids. Carthage has shied away from the Valley almost completely and now focuses most of its recruiting on the Chicago suburbs. In the 90s, both of those programs had that talent funneling into their rosters year after year and World Series appearances followed. It just seems like too much of a coincidence for this to not be related in any way.
"Let's Play Two!!!"

Baseball is not a game that builds character, it is a game that reveals it.

"There are three types of baseball players: those who make things happen, those who watch it happen, and those who wonder what happened."
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blade12
I saw this a couple of days ago.

http://www.fox11online.com/news/local/fox-cities/former-uw-oshkosh-baseball-coach-tom-lechnir-sues-school
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mickjagger
coachw12 wrote:
I guess this does not surprise me. The youth of today with their participation awards and 5th place trophies cannot handle it when someone does not stroke their ego or tell them they are #1 like the helicopter parent do.

Try to stay on topic, coachw.

The lawsuit has nothing to do with Lechnir's treament of his players. It has to do with his dissagreement with his dismissal & performance review by UWO on the points of fundraising & administration responsibilities.
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
Quote 0 0
coachw12
I guess this does not surprise me. The youth of today with their participation awards and 5th place trophies cannot handle it when someone does not stroke their ego or tell them they are #1 like the helicopter parent do.

Quote 0 0
coachw12
mickjagger wrote:
coachw12 wrote:
I guess this does not surprise me. The youth of today with their participation awards and 5th place trophies cannot handle it when someone does not stroke their ego or tell them they are #1 like the helicopter parent do.

Try to stay on topic, coachw.

The lawsuit has nothing to do with Lechnir's treament of his players. It has to do with his dissagreement with his dismissal & performance review by UWO on the points of fundraising & administration responsibilities.



mick, you have been around long enough to know that you have to commit a major crime to be fired in the WIAC.
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formerwiacbaseballer
coachw12 wrote:
mick, you have been around long enough to know that you have to commit a major crime to be fired in the WIAC.

Unless you have an AD that is cleaning house across the board, which is the case at Oshkosh.
"Let's Play Two!!!"

Baseball is not a game that builds character, it is a game that reveals it.

"There are three types of baseball players: those who make things happen, those who watch it happen, and those who wonder what happened."
Quote 0 0
formerwiacbaseballer
Looks like Coach Lechnir wasn't out of work for long! Can't say I am very surprised by this....

http://woodsidesportscomplex.com/about/team/

It appears Woodside is trying to do the same thing for baseball in the area that Just A Game is doing for basketball.
"Let's Play Two!!!"

Baseball is not a game that builds character, it is a game that reveals it.

"There are three types of baseball players: those who make things happen, those who watch it happen, and those who wonder what happened."
Quote 0 0
formerwiacbaseballer
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
Forgot to mention, UWO AD Sims is a football guy having played at UW so it should come as no surprise that a lot of efforts are going towards the football program.

It would be quite ironic if he ended up being the fall guy as far as administration goes if they ever got to the bottom of the money issue.....


voiceofreason wrote:
The other issue that needs to be investigated is UWO's handling of funds. One of the commenters had it right - it's hard enough to fundraise for DIII. Why alienate your donor-base by diverting funds away from what they've been earmarked for? Dumb decision, and if true, will probably result in more jobs lost than just the Coach.

We might just get an answer to both of the above bolded statements...

After swinging and missing at both the local and state court levels, Coach Lechnir made contact at the federal level.

He is getting the case heard in Federal Court, where defendants (former Chancellor Richard Wells, Athletic Director Darryl Sims, Vice Chancellor of Student Affairs Petra Roter, and Vice Chancellor for Administrative Services Tom Sonnleitner) will have to testify under oath and Coach Lechnir's lawyers will have access to e-mails and written correspondence as well.

Some of the quotes in the article below are quite fascinating!!!!

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/statecolleges/tom-lechnirs-lawsuit-against-uw-oshkosh-moving-to-federal-court-b99533403z1-312309471.html

I am really interested to see if more details of this case ended up being revealed now. Since the beginning it seems like there has always been more to this story.
"Let's Play Two!!!"

Baseball is not a game that builds character, it is a game that reveals it.

"There are three types of baseball players: those who make things happen, those who watch it happen, and those who wonder what happened."
Quote 0 0
mickjagger
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
Forgot to mention, UWO AD Sims is a football guy having played at UW so it should come as no surprise that a lot of efforts are going towards the football program.

It would be quite ironic if he ended up being the fall guy as far as administration goes if they ever got to the bottom of the money issue.....


voiceofreason wrote:
The other issue that needs to be investigated is UWO's handling of funds. One of the commenters had it right - it's hard enough to fundraise for DIII. Why alienate your donor-base by diverting funds away from what they've been earmarked for? Dumb decision, and if true, will probably result in more jobs lost than just the Coach.

We might just get an answer to both of the above bolded statements...

After swinging and missing at both the local and state court levels, Coach Lechnir made contact at the federal level.

He is getting the case heard in Federal Court, where defendants (former Chancellor Richard Wells, Athletic Director Darryl Sims, Vice Chancellor of Student Affairs Petra Roter, and Vice Chancellor for Administrative Services Tom Sonnleitner) will have to testify under oath and Coach Lechnir's lawyers will have access to e-mails and written correspondence as well.

Some of the quotes in the article below are quite fascinating!!!!

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/statecolleges/tom-lechnirs-lawsuit-against-uw-oshkosh-moving-to-federal-court-b99533403z1-312309471.html

I am really interested to see if more details of this case ended up being revealed now. Since the beginning it seems like there has always been more to this story.

Thanks, [h]WIAC[/h], for the update.
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
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