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Capers still has a job with the Packers as of right now. That alone should tell you all you need to know about McCarthy. Then again, he did say just last week that he loved the Packers defense.

Yeah boy....McCarthy deserves our support. [rotfl] [rotfl] [rotfl]
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whfan202
icons wrote:
Capers still has a job with the Packers as of right now. That alone should tell you all you need to know about McCarthy. Then again, he did say just last week that he loved the Packers defense.

Yeah boy....McCarthy deserves our support. [rotfl] [rotfl] [rotfl]

Your caustic and arrogant nature regarding this is maddening. McCarthy HAS HAD ONE LOSING SEASON IN HIS TIME IN GREEN BAY. If they were going to fire McCarthy, they should have done it last year if they were serious about it. They didn't, and his job is safe for sure. We all second-guess his offensive playcalling, but in the grand scheme of things he still leads a solid offense.

And how is Capers' job status having to do with McCarthy? It's not solely his decision, it's Thompson's too. Remember TT and McCarthy gave us a Super Bowl and even though that's the past, we've been to the postseason and won the division each year since.

Remember, even if we DID let McCarthy go, there wouldn't be a team in the NFL that wouldn't kill to have him sign on as their head coach.
SJM, BSM, forever in my heart. WSN Hall of Fame, Class of 2016 Twitter: https://twitter.com/J_Michaels25
Quote 0 0
dawgstyle
riseagainst wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
mrmike527 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
warrior2spartan wrote:
I've seen numerous people on various websites say Mike McCarthy should be fired. This really shows some people's lack of intelligence. 6 playoff berths, 4 division titles, and World Championship isn't good enough for some people apparently. If you want someone else to help call plays that's fine, no issue with that. A fresh mind to be in McCarthy's ear would be a good thing I think. But if you honestly think McCarthy should be let go, you're out of your mind, dumb really.


I'm not saying he should be fire, however...

Just so you can understand something, Schottenheimer went 14-2 with the Chargers and was fired. Two years before that he went 12-4.

Winning a SB will only buy you so much time. Look at Andy Reid. Off the top of my head I can't think of a coach in the last 15 years that was as successful as him other than BB.

14 years as a the HC
3 losing seasons
9 Playoff Berths
10 Playoff Victories
6 Division Titles


It's not dumb to fire a coach just because hes won recently. MM isn't going to give up the play calling. If you think he is then you sir are out of your mind.


Quote:
Winning a SB will only buy you so much time. Look at Andy Reid.


Ha uh..am I missing something here?

McCarthy has done an absolutely excellent job as the coach of the Packers. He's terrible in-game, and no doubt a huge part of that is because he has tasked himself with play calling and clock management. But from an overall strategic standpoint, he has been doing a few things for a few years now (like packaged plays) which have proven ahead of his time. Most importantly, though, he has done an excellent job developing offensive players. The offensive line is really the only offensive unit that underachieves, and altogether that's a pretty positive reflection of the offensive coach.

I also think it's pretty clear Thompson has consistently brought in defensive impact-makers. Micah Hyde came in right away and produced. Nick Perry, while unfortunately stuggling with injuries, has shown he could probably be an upper-level pass rusher. Mike Daniels emerged. But it's the same story every year, with new defensive impact makers--these guys either get worse or stay the same. The only example of a player who has gotten markedly better under Capers is Sam Shields, and he had literally the least amount of coaching you could ever expect out of an NFL player when he came into the league.

So his players don't get better. But there are some recurring issues as well. People were complaining about Jarrett Bush giving up contain on the last play of the game, but at some point, when every edge player on the defense has given up contain at some point during the season, blame has to be on the coach. The players constantly give up contain on run and pass plays. The second thing is that there are perpetual coverage breakdowns in the secondary. When Davon House is tasked with covering Michael Crabtree, that's not a bad scheme, that's impossible to win. But when a couple times every game, players are turned loose deep while DBs point at each other and yell, that's a coaching issue.

And lastly, the defensive injuries this year were unbelievably overblown. He had tremendous luck on the D-Line. He really only had one major injury in the DBs. There were injuries in the OLBs, but it seems there are always injuries in the OLBs, no matter who is playing there, every year--could it possibly be that they're being mismanaged? Again, this seems to be more a systemic issue than one of poor luck or individual deficiency.


A period represents the end of one statement and the start of another. That is what you are missing.

And two unrelated statements right next to each other represents terrible writing.


Its a sports forum, not a writing class. Are we really going to start calling out everything that is "terrible writing" now?
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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bigjer54
db11 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
db11 wrote:
The "Super Bowl or Bust" mentality from the fanbase can be really toxic. A healthy dose of perspective is always what the doctor ordered.

My issue with all the "fire ____" comments is this, how many of these people had written off the season after Rodgers went down and they lost a bunch of games? I'm guessing quite a few. Yet now that they miraculously snuck into the playoffs and didn't win the whole thing, everybody sucks?

What a ridiculous mindset.

It'd be one thing if they went 8-7-1 while remainining relatively healthy all year. People forget how decent the defense looked before the injuries settled in.

IMO, there is no other franchise in the NFL (including NE) facing the same circumstances that could have done what GB did this year. This franchise is still in a really good spot. How much do you really wanna shake that apple tree? You do that and next thing you know you got Ray Rhodes and .500 is a big achievement. You don't just win Super Bowls by existing, a lot of things have to fall in place even for the best teams.

If there's any year for a mulligan, this is it.

And believe me, I'd love to see changes on defense, both player and scheme-wise...but the offense, McCarthy and Thompson? You'd be a fool to tinker with that too much.


Just curious what exactly that is.


Stay alive enough with all their injuries (including Rodgers and Matthews) to even be in the playoff picture.


Not every division has the Lions in it. 6-2 when Rodgers and Cutler went down, finished 7-9.
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dawgstyle
db11 wrote:
The "Super Bowl or Bust" mentality from the fanbase can be really toxic. A healthy dose of perspective is always what the doctor ordered.

My issue with all the "fire ____" comments is this, how many of these people had written off the season after Rodgers went down and they lost a bunch of games? I'm guessing quite a few. Yet now that they miraculously snuck into the playoffs and didn't win the whole thing, everybody sucks?

What a ridiculous mindset.

It'd be one thing if they went 8-7-1 while remainining relatively healthy all year. People forget how decent the defense looked before the injuries settled in.

IMO, there is no other franchise in the NFL (including NE) facing the same circumstances that could have done what GB did this year. This franchise is still in a really good spot. How much do you really wanna shake that apple tree? You do that and next thing you know you got Ray Rhodes and .500 is a big achievement. You don't just win Super Bowls by existing, a lot of things have to fall in place even for the best teams.

If there's any year for a mulligan, this is it.

And believe me, I'd love to see changes on defense, both player and scheme-wise...but the offense, McCarthy and Thompson? You'd be a fool to tinker with that too much.



Please see me after class, your paragraphing is not where it needs to be.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
Quote 0 0
mrmike527
dawgstyle wrote:


A period represents the end of one statement and the start of another. That is what you are missing.


Well then I'm really missing something, because you just said "A Super Bowl only uys you so much time" and then failed to justify that or relate that to McCarthy in any way.

No coach that has won a Super Bowl in the last decade has been fired. Not a single one. The last coach to win a Super Bowl and be fired was Jon Gruden, who was fired six years after his Super Bowl appearance, during which he made the playoffs only twice. Before that it was Billick.

Billick is an interesting example, because he's likely the worst coach to ever win a Super Bowl. And yet he was given 7 years after that Super Bowl appearance, after only 3 playoff appearances. McCarthy is currently on year three, and has already had as many or more playoff appearances than Gruden and Billick did in their entire post-Super Bowl tenures.

The reason I found Andy Reid to be a weird follow up is because he's probably proof of the opposite--if Reid had won a Super Bowl in Philadelphia, he would still be there. His tenure in Philadelphia was defined by good teams that did well for a while then failed to win it all. Even though Reid was a great coach and had lots of winning seasons, about halfway through his career fans started calling for his head because he couldn't win the big one.
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db11
It's incredibly short-sighted to think firing McCarthy and Thompson at this point is a good idea.

People's mindset towards the NFL is weird. Build up a lot of goodwill, but have a bad game at the wrong time and you're the biggest idiot ever.

Of course, these are the same people who wanted Holmgren and Wolf gone when GB couldn't beat the Cowboys.
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Quote 0 0
dawgstyle
mrmike527 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
warrior2spartan wrote:
I've seen numerous people on various websites say Mike McCarthy should be fired. This really shows some people's lack of intelligence. 6 playoff berths, 4 division titles, and World Championship isn't good enough for some people apparently. If you want someone else to help call plays that's fine, no issue with that. A fresh mind to be in McCarthy's ear would be a good thing I think. But if you honestly think McCarthy should be let go, you're out of your mind, dumb really.


I'm not saying he should be fire, however...

Just so you can understand something, Schottenheimer went 14-2 with the Chargers and was fired. Two years before that he went 12-4.

Winning a SB will only buy you so much time. Look at Andy Reid. Off the top of my head I can't think of a coach in the last 15 years that was as successful as him other than BB.

14 years as a the HC
3 losing seasons
9 Playoff Berths
10 Playoff Victories
6 Division Titles


It's not dumb to fire a coach just because hes won recently. MM isn't going to give up the play calling. If you think he is then you sir are out of your mind.


Quote:
Winning a SB will only buy you so much time. Look at Andy Reid.


Ha uh..am I missing something here?

McCarthy has done an absolutely excellent job as the coach of the Packers. He's terrible in-game, and no doubt a huge part of that is because he has tasked himself with play calling and clock management. But from an overall strategic standpoint, he has been doing a few things for a few years now (like packaged plays) which have proven ahead of his time. Most importantly, though, he has done an excellent job developing offensive players. The offensive line is really the only offensive unit that underachieves, and altogether that's a pretty positive reflection of the offensive coach.

I also think it's pretty clear Thompson has consistently brought in defensive impact-makers. Micah Hyde came in right away and produced. Nick Perry, while unfortunately stuggling with injuries, has shown he could probably be an upper-level pass rusher. Mike Daniels emerged. But it's the same story every year, with new defensive impact makers--these guys either get worse or stay the same. The only example of a player who has gotten markedly better under Capers is Sam Shields, and he had literally the least amount of coaching you could ever expect out of an NFL player when he came into the league.

So his players don't get better. But there are some recurring issues as well. People were complaining about Jarrett Bush giving up contain on the last play of the game, but at some point, when every edge player on the defense has given up contain at some point during the season, blame has to be on the coach. The players constantly give up contain on run and pass plays. The second thing is that there are perpetual coverage breakdowns in the secondary. When Davon House is tasked with covering Michael Crabtree, that's not a bad scheme, that's impossible to win. But when a couple times every game, players are turned loose deep while DBs point at each other and yell, that's a coaching issue.

And lastly, the defensive injuries this year were unbelievably overblown. He had tremendous luck on the D-Line. He really only had one major injury in the DBs. There were injuries in the OLBs, but it seems there are always injuries in the OLBs, no matter who is playing there, every year--could it possibly be that they're being mismanaged? Again, this seems to be more a systemic issue than one of poor luck or individual deficiency.


A period represents the end of one statement and the start of another. That is what you are missing.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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mrmike527
dawgstyle wrote:
warrior2spartan wrote:
I've seen numerous people on various websites say Mike McCarthy should be fired. This really shows some people's lack of intelligence. 6 playoff berths, 4 division titles, and World Championship isn't good enough for some people apparently. If you want someone else to help call plays that's fine, no issue with that. A fresh mind to be in McCarthy's ear would be a good thing I think. But if you honestly think McCarthy should be let go, you're out of your mind, dumb really.


I'm not saying he should be fire, however...

Just so you can understand something, Schottenheimer went 14-2 with the Chargers and was fired. Two years before that he went 12-4.

Winning a SB will only buy you so much time. Look at Andy Reid. Off the top of my head I can't think of a coach in the last 15 years that was as successful as him other than BB.

14 years as a the HC
3 losing seasons
9 Playoff Berths
10 Playoff Victories
6 Division Titles


It's not dumb to fire a coach just because hes won recently. MM isn't going to give up the play calling. If you think he is then you sir are out of your mind.


Quote:
Winning a SB will only buy you so much time. Look at Andy Reid.


Ha uh..am I missing something here?

McCarthy has done an absolutely excellent job as the coach of the Packers. He's terrible in-game, and no doubt a huge part of that is because he has tasked himself with play calling and clock management. But from an overall strategic standpoint, he has been doing a few things for a few years now (like packaged plays) which have proven ahead of his time. Most importantly, though, he has done an excellent job developing offensive players. The offensive line is really the only offensive unit that underachieves, and altogether that's a pretty positive reflection of the offensive coach.

I also think it's pretty clear Thompson has consistently brought in defensive impact-makers. Micah Hyde came in right away and produced. Nick Perry, while unfortunately stuggling with injuries, has shown he could probably be an upper-level pass rusher. Mike Daniels emerged. But it's the same story every year, with new defensive impact makers--these guys either get worse or stay the same. The only example of a player who has gotten markedly better under Capers is Sam Shields, and he had literally the least amount of coaching you could ever expect out of an NFL player when he came into the league.

So his players don't get better. But there are some recurring issues as well. People were complaining about Jarrett Bush giving up contain on the last play of the game, but at some point, when every edge player on the defense has given up contain at some point during the season, blame has to be on the coach. The players constantly give up contain on run and pass plays. The second thing is that there are perpetual coverage breakdowns in the secondary. When Davon House is tasked with covering Michael Crabtree, that's not a bad scheme, that's impossible to win. But when a couple times every game, players are turned loose deep while DBs point at each other and yell, that's a coaching issue.

And lastly, the defensive injuries this year were unbelievably overblown. He had tremendous luck on the D-Line. He really only had one major injury in the DBs. There were injuries in the OLBs, but it seems there are always injuries in the OLBs, no matter who is playing there, every year--could it possibly be that they're being mismanaged? Again, this seems to be more a systemic issue than one of poor luck or individual deficiency.
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riseagainst
dawgstyle wrote:
mrmike527 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
warrior2spartan wrote:
I've seen numerous people on various websites say Mike McCarthy should be fired. This really shows some people's lack of intelligence. 6 playoff berths, 4 division titles, and World Championship isn't good enough for some people apparently. If you want someone else to help call plays that's fine, no issue with that. A fresh mind to be in McCarthy's ear would be a good thing I think. But if you honestly think McCarthy should be let go, you're out of your mind, dumb really.


I'm not saying he should be fire, however...

Just so you can understand something, Schottenheimer went 14-2 with the Chargers and was fired. Two years before that he went 12-4.

Winning a SB will only buy you so much time. Look at Andy Reid. Off the top of my head I can't think of a coach in the last 15 years that was as successful as him other than BB.

14 years as a the HC
3 losing seasons
9 Playoff Berths
10 Playoff Victories
6 Division Titles


It's not dumb to fire a coach just because hes won recently. MM isn't going to give up the play calling. If you think he is then you sir are out of your mind.


Quote:
Winning a SB will only buy you so much time. Look at Andy Reid.


Ha uh..am I missing something here?

McCarthy has done an absolutely excellent job as the coach of the Packers. He's terrible in-game, and no doubt a huge part of that is because he has tasked himself with play calling and clock management. But from an overall strategic standpoint, he has been doing a few things for a few years now (like packaged plays) which have proven ahead of his time. Most importantly, though, he has done an excellent job developing offensive players. The offensive line is really the only offensive unit that underachieves, and altogether that's a pretty positive reflection of the offensive coach.

I also think it's pretty clear Thompson has consistently brought in defensive impact-makers. Micah Hyde came in right away and produced. Nick Perry, while unfortunately stuggling with injuries, has shown he could probably be an upper-level pass rusher. Mike Daniels emerged. But it's the same story every year, with new defensive impact makers--these guys either get worse or stay the same. The only example of a player who has gotten markedly better under Capers is Sam Shields, and he had literally the least amount of coaching you could ever expect out of an NFL player when he came into the league.

So his players don't get better. But there are some recurring issues as well. People were complaining about Jarrett Bush giving up contain on the last play of the game, but at some point, when every edge player on the defense has given up contain at some point during the season, blame has to be on the coach. The players constantly give up contain on run and pass plays. The second thing is that there are perpetual coverage breakdowns in the secondary. When Davon House is tasked with covering Michael Crabtree, that's not a bad scheme, that's impossible to win. But when a couple times every game, players are turned loose deep while DBs point at each other and yell, that's a coaching issue.

And lastly, the defensive injuries this year were unbelievably overblown. He had tremendous luck on the D-Line. He really only had one major injury in the DBs. There were injuries in the OLBs, but it seems there are always injuries in the OLBs, no matter who is playing there, every year--could it possibly be that they're being mismanaged? Again, this seems to be more a systemic issue than one of poor luck or individual deficiency.


A period represents the end of one statement and the start of another. That is what you are missing.

And two unrelated statements right next to each other represents terrible writing.
University of Wisconsin Track and Field
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coachw12
Dom Capers does not line up and play for the green bay packers so he really has no effect on the other teams offense. Coaches coach up the players but it is up to the players to win the games.

Tackling is an attitude. you have to want to tackle.

The biggest problem with the packers is they have alter boys playing defense when they need some convicted felons.
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mrmike527
coachw12 wrote:
Dom Capers does not line up and play for the green bay packers so he really has no effect on the other teams offense. Coaches coach up the players but it is up to the players to win the games.

Tackling is an attitude. you have to want to tackle.

The biggest problem with the packers is they have alter boys playing defense when they need some convicted felons.


I'm not sure how many teams have convicted felons playing on their defense, and I would guess it's not many--but hilariously, the Packers are one.
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paladium
In my view, the best way to view how good they (and position coaches are) is how their players progress through their first 3 years in the league.

Packers offensive players typically progress very well. It is rare that someone makes an impact as a rookie and then permanently regresses. Sure, sophomore slumps are common (James Jones is a great example of that), but almost always offensive players for the Packers get better over time. See players like Lang, EDS, Finley, Quarless, Boykin, and Jones for examples of what I mean. Each player has gotten noticeably better since their rookie season. That, to me, says the offensive coaching staff has done a good job at developing players.

On defense, the CB coach is tremendous. Williams and Shields both got better with time (although Williams has regressed in effort since the Super Bowl run). On the DL, CJ Wilson became a quality run stopper and Mike Daniels took a big step forward. Pickett has maintained a high level of play, while Raji has regressed because he flat out doesnt care. Walden, Zombo, Mulumba.. All nobodies who got coached up by Greene. But, on the whole, the defensive staff has not been as good as the offensive staff at coaching up players.

Thus, why I believe Capers needs to go. He sets the tone for the defense, and he hasn't been able to keep everyone progressing at the level needed to keep the defense solid.
The Brewers will finish 90-72 and earn the #1 WC berth.

Carlos Gomez will have a 30/40 season (HR/SB) and win a 2nd Gold Glove en route to an All Star selection.
Quote 0 0
mrmike527
paladium wrote:
In my view, the best way to view how good they (and position coaches are) is how their players progress through their first 3 years in the league.

Packers offensive players typically progress very well. It is rare that someone makes an impact as a rookie and then permanently regresses. Sure, sophomore slumps are common (James Jones is a great example of that), but almost always offensive players for the Packers get better over time. See players like Lang, EDS, Finley, Quarless, Boykin, and Jones for examples of what I mean. Each player has gotten noticeably better since their rookie season. That, to me, says the offensive coaching staff has done a good job at developing players.

On defense, the CB coach is tremendous. Williams and Shields both got better with time (although Williams has regressed in effort since the Super Bowl run). On the DL, CJ Wilson became a quality run stopper and Mike Daniels took a big step forward. Pickett has maintained a high level of play, while Raji has regressed because he flat out doesnt care. Walden, Zombo, Mulumba.. All nobodies who got coached up by Greene. But, on the whole, the defensive staff has not been as good as the offensive staff at coaching up players.

Thus, why I believe Capers needs to go. He sets the tone for the defense, and he hasn't been able to keep everyone progressing at the level needed to keep the defense solid.


I would argue the DBacks coach is the worst of all. Whitt came in 2009. Williams did most of his improving between 2007 and 2008 (when he became the full-time starter). Most of his improvement came pre-Whitt, most of his regression came post-Whitt. Casey Hayward came in showing promise and was awful in limited time this year. Davon House showed pretty impressive ability straight out of school and got worse and worse as this year went on, and as playing terrible football by the end. The only guy who has significantly improved is Shields, and he probably had less coaching than almost anyone who comes into the NFL--he had been playing the position for less than a year.
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icons
Pretty obvious now that Capers is staying in Green Bay.

On the bright side, Rodgers should put up great fantasy numbers since the Packers will again be behind on a regular basis. Heehee....we smiled when the Bears signed Cutler to an extension and the rest of the league is smiling now that we will have a Capers led defense for at least another season.
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