topnotch1
Okay, I'm asking two different questions on the same thread because I didn't want to make two threads on the same two players.

Part A:

With Shaq/Kobe playing each other again last night, I've heard this question thrown around a lot lately: How many more titles would those two have won together if Shaq hadn't left for Miami?

I say 0. They never would have made it to the Finals the next year, because the Spurs were at their peak and a much better team than the Lakers would have been. The next year they would have run into the same Detroit team that whipped them in '04. By '05 Shaq was clearly in decline and their window would have closed.

Part B:

Which player, at their respective peaks, was a better athlete, Kobe or Shaq?

I say Shaq. Kobe was/is an elite athlete, but their are definitely other players in the same mold as him. There's never been another 7'1" 330+ pound man that could do the things that Shaq could do.

Let's try to keep this civil guys. That means both MBC and anyone who would purposely try to get him going. If you don't have an intelligent thoughtful opinion, don't share one at all.
Ricky Rubio will be a Pamela Anderson sized bust.

6/28/2009

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sportsfan12
I'll take a shot at B and say it depends on what you define Athlete as.
IMO, Shaq was a product of his imense size, which doesn't make a person Athletic.
To me, an athlete has some skill/finese to their game and can be multi-talented. Shaq is/was more of a brute force type of player.
Shaq was big and could move well for his size. But I don't see him out leading a fast break, making a crazy crossover dribble, or some acrobatic layup.
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topnotch1
sportsfan wrote:


I'll take a shot at B and say it depends on what you define Athlete as.
IMO, Shaq was a product of his imense size, which doesn't make a person Athletic.
To me, an athlete has some skill/finese to their game and can be multi-talented. Shaq is/was more of a brute force type of player.
Shaq was big and could move well for his size. But I don't see him out leading a fast break, making a crazy crossover dribble, or some acrobatic layup.


Watch this, particularly at 3:30
[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM-eBOLMrOU&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM-eBOLMrOU&feature=related
[/link]
and this, more notably at the end, for some fast break examples.

[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcUPgJXq4l8&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcUPgJXq4l8&feature=related[/link]

Or this, which was when he had started to get fat already.

[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVsWuHblBwU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVsWuHblBwU[/link]

You want a crossover?[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eu2NrAqQr4]
[/link]

Just youtube Shaq fast break and you get a dozen great examples of him running the floor. So many people only remember him winning championships with the Lakers, which might have been the peak of his career but certainly not his athletic peak. If you think Kobe is a better athlete, that's fine, but not for the reasons you stated.

Ricky Rubio will be a Pamela Anderson sized bust.

6/28/2009

Quote 0 0
rodey
Top Notch wrote:



Part A:

With Shaq/Kobe playing each other again last night, I've heard this question thrown around a lot lately:? How many more titles would those two have won together if Shaq hadn't left for Miami?

I say 0.? They never would have made it to the Finals the next year, because the Spurs were at their peak and a much better team than the Lakers would have been.? The next year they would have run into the same Detroit team that whipped them in '04.? By '05 Shaq was clearly in decline and their window would have closed.



They would have won one more, guaranteed.

Shaq won another ring two years after departing Los Angeles with a Miami team that was far less talented than the team LA had the year Shaq got the boot.


Also, Shaq's downfall really didn't get into full swing until the 2006 season. His 2005 numbers were still very good and his post-season numbers were solid as well.?
I may be wrong, but I doubt it "I do have one question: Have you ever seen Gollum, John Clayton and Sam Cassell in the same place before?" - Charles Barkley
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LLegend4eva_old
There probably never be another shaq, players of kobes size and athleticism are a dime a dozen these days. There may have many tabbed "baby shaqs" that were never even close. Dwight Howard is the closest thing to shaq and hes lacking in height and weight compared to shaq.
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topnotch1
Rodey wrote:


Top Notch wrote:



Part A:

With Shaq/Kobe playing each other again last night, I've heard this question thrown around a lot lately: How many more titles would those two have won together if Shaq hadn't left for Miami?

I say 0. They never would have made it to the Finals the next year, because the Spurs were at their peak and a much better team than the Lakers would have been. The next year they would have run into the same Detroit team that whipped them in '04. By '05 Shaq was clearly in decline and their window would have closed.



They would have won one more, guaranteed.

Shaq won another ring two years after departing Los Angeles with a Miami team that was far less talented than the team LA had the year Shaq got the boot.


Also, Shaq's downfall really didn't get into full swing until the 2006 season. His 2005 numbers were still very good and his post-season numbers were solid as well.


Whoops I got my years screwed up. '04 Shaq and co. lost to the Pistons, '05 they never would have got past the Spurs, '06 Shaq was putting up 20-9, still good, but a long way from what he was doing during the Lakers 3 peat. I don't think the Lakers would have had the supporting cast around Kobe and a declining Shaq (Kwame Brown? Smush Parker? Luke Walton? No Lamar Odom...), that they could have won another title.
Ricky Rubio will be a Pamela Anderson sized bust.

6/28/2009

Quote 0 0
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