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indians23_old
What do you guys think about Cameron leading-off? Svuem tried it last year at it worked for a while. Thoughts?
The strength of the group is the strength of the leaders.
-- Vince Lombardi
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laxarea
indians23 wrote:


What do you guys think about Cameron leading-off? Svuem tried it last year at it worked for a while. Thoughts?


No, it never worked. I never understand why anyone thinks this? He hit .204 in that spot in the regular season and .154 in the playoffs. That was Sveum trying to act like he was doing something different and people loved it cause it wasn't Weeks (nor Yost); but it definitely didn't work.

Hart was BRUTAL as the lead-off hitter as well; .188 with no walks in 32 trips. This year obviously he has been much more patient, but those numbers are starting to dip as well. With the average down to .248.

Other than Counsell, people need to stop thinking there's a player on this team capable of being a prototypical lead-off hitter (from an on-base, work the count stand point). We saw this year Weeks should be up there trying to hit, not walk. Hart is no different except his adjustment needed to be not swinging at garbage, which he's improved. Weeks just let too many pitches go for the sake of "being a leadoff hitter" and didn't give himself good counts.

Counsell's the only guy I trust to see strikes and be able to put together a good at-bat.


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roadkill1
laxarea wrote:


indians23 wrote:


What do you guys think about Cameron leading-off? Svuem tried it last year at it worked for a while. Thoughts?


No, it never worked. I never understand why anyone thinks this? He hit .204 in that spot in the regular season and .154 in the playoffs. That was Sveum trying to act like he was doing something different and people loved it cause it wasn't Weeks (nor Yost); but it definitely didn't work.

Hart was BRUTAL as the lead-off hitter as well; .188 with no walks in 32 trips. This year obviously he has been much more patient, but those numbers are starting to dip as well. With the average down to .248.

Other than Counsell, people need to stop thinking there's a player on this team capable of being a prototypical lead-off hitter (from an on-base, work the count stand point). We saw this year Weeks should be up there trying to hit, not walk. Hart is no different except his adjustment needed to be not swinging at garbage, which he's improved. Weeks just let too many pitches go for the sake of "being a leadoff hitter" and didn't give himself good counts.

Counsell's the only guy I trust to see strikes and be able to put together a good at-bat.


In all fairness, Cameron batted lead off because of his mind set.
He is a level headed guy, and the pressure wouldn't effect his play one way or the other.
Everyone knows he is not a "proto-typical" lead off hitter.

I mean, outside of Brock, Henderson & Carew who is??
"So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold
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laxarea
road kill wrote:


laxarea wrote:


indians23 wrote:


What do you guys think about Cameron leading-off? Svuem tried it last year at it worked for a while. Thoughts?


No, it never worked. I never understand why anyone thinks this? He hit .204 in that spot in the regular season and .154 in the playoffs. That was Sveum trying to act like he was doing something different and people loved it cause it wasn't Weeks (nor Yost); but it definitely didn't work.

Hart was BRUTAL as the lead-off hitter as well; .188 with no walks in 32 trips. This year obviously he has been much more patient, but those numbers are starting to dip as well. With the average down to .248.

Other than Counsell, people need to stop thinking there's a player on this team capable of being a prototypical lead-off hitter (from an on-base, work the count stand point). We saw this year Weeks should be up there trying to hit, not walk. Hart is no different except his adjustment needed to be not swinging at garbage, which he's improved. Weeks just let too many pitches go for the sake of "being a leadoff hitter" and didn't give himself good counts.

Counsell's the only guy I trust to see strikes and be able to put together a good at-bat.


In all fairness, Cameron batted lead off because of his mind set.
He is a level headed guy, and the pressure wouldn't effect his play one way or the other.
Everyone knows he is not a "proto-typical" lead off hitter.

I mean, outside of Brock, Henderson & Carew who is??

1. Agreed, at least that's what Sveum said, and it's probably true- heck I'm a Cameron fan. It just didn't work nearly as well as people think it did. Not saying you're one of those people. I still think Sveum did it to not be Yost (since Weeks was having a great September again, as was Durham) ... but that's neither here nor there.

2. Also COMPLETELY agree ... and that's kind of what I was trying to get across, the majority of the people here want their leadoff hitter to see 8 pitches an at-bat, hit .300 and have a near .400 OBP; those guys don't exist. Last year Weeks had a .342 OBP and everyone wanted him out of town, this year he had a .340 OBP and everyone thought he was great ... so really, how bad was he last year?

There are very few guys in the entire league who do what Brewer fans expect of their lead-off hitter. I guess I shouldn't be that surprised by Brewer fans having unrealistic expectations

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gdesjarlais_old
I think you give Gamel his shot at 3rd base as an every day player. He helps balance the massive amount of righties in the lineup. I think his defense will improve with the help of Randolph every day. I say make the switch now.
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pinetar
IDK...I have never seen a 6.8 million dollar platoon man...but if I had to pick the first one...it would be Bill Hall...

about the double platoon thing though...I think it would actually be a great idea...doesn't have to be strict platoon lefty/righty but for the majority of times it would be great IMO...Hall/Gamel doing the righty lefty thing at 3rd and Hall getting a few games in there against right handers still since theres going to be more right handers then left handers...and Counsell/Mcghee at 2nd with Counsell getting the majority of the AB's...

it does suck for Rickie Weeks but we can't dwell on that...he was still only hitting .270 something and yeah he was scoring a ton of runs and hitting the long ball...I loved the solid contact almost everytime up...but Craigs 413 OBP and 324 AVG are better then Weeks...plus Craigs OPS is 868 to Weeks 857...I know you will lose a bit of the glove and athleticism with Craig but lets not act like he can't fill in for a while at least...I really think his new batting stance will help him for the whole year and this isn't just some streak he's on...

but dang...I wanted this to be Rickies year
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diener34
Somewhere in a dark room Wizzler is weeping gently...
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db11
T_Unit14 wrote:


laxarea wrote:


road kill wrote:


laxarea wrote:


indians23 wrote:


What do you guys think about Cameron leading-off? Svuem tried it last year at it worked for a while. Thoughts?


No, it never worked. I never understand why anyone thinks this? He hit .204 in that spot in the regular season and .154 in the playoffs. That was Sveum trying to act like he was doing something different and people loved it cause it wasn't Weeks (nor Yost); but it definitely didn't work.

Hart was BRUTAL as the lead-off hitter as well; .188 with no walks in 32 trips. This year obviously he has been much more patient, but those numbers are starting to dip as well. With the average down to .248.

Other than Counsell, people need to stop thinking there's a player on this team capable of being a prototypical lead-off hitter (from an on-base, work the count stand point). We saw this year Weeks should be up there trying to hit, not walk. Hart is no different except his adjustment needed to be not swinging at garbage, which he's improved. Weeks just let too many pitches go for the sake of "being a leadoff hitter" and didn't give himself good counts.

Counsell's the only guy I trust to see strikes and be able to put together a good at-bat.


In all fairness, Cameron batted lead off because of his mind set.
He is a level headed guy, and the pressure wouldn't effect his play one way or the other.
Everyone knows he is not a "proto-typical" lead off hitter.

I mean, outside of Brock, Henderson & Carew who is??

1. Agreed, at least that's what Sveum said, and it's probably true- heck I'm a Cameron fan. It just didn't work nearly as well as people think it did. Not saying you're one of those people. I still think Sveum did it to not be Yost (since Weeks was having a great September again, as was Durham) ... but that's neither here nor there.

2. Also COMPLETELY agree ... and that's kind of what I was trying to get across, the majority of the people here want their leadoff hitter to see 8 pitches an at-bat, hit .300 and have a near .400 OBP; those guys don't exist. Last year Weeks had a .342 OBP and everyone wanted him out of town, this year he had a .340 OBP and everyone thought he was great ... so really, how bad was he last year?

There are very few guys in the entire league who do what Brewer fans expect of their lead-off hitter. I guess I shouldn't be that surprised by Brewer fans having unrealistic expectations


agreed Brewers fans have very high expectations...but when you know that this player (and players on the team) were drafted as a #1 or #2 pick and they are up on the big league team and you have heard all of the hype the last few years about this player being one of the best, you get preconceived notions that they are going to be great and when they stumble out of the blocks you tend to get upset...

with that said...I was more happy with Weeks a player this year because his defense was second to none in the big leagues...and you add that with his bat and you have one helluva player all of the sudden you didn't have last year...plus with a team having success, it's a little harder to complain about players and lack of production...

I will say this though...I think fans were on the Weeks bandwagon because he was hitting homeruns and Brewers fans seem to associate hitting homeruns with being a good player when thats not always the case...at least your "average" Brewer fan uses that to gauge players


Partly, I s'pose. I was just happy that he was driving the ball and making things happen with his bat (homers, hits, RBIs, etc.) and coming up with big-time hits as opposed to walking and hoping someone else knocked him in...

It's not like Weeks was some slouch who never had a chance to hit over .230 and made his living by working counts and being a pesky hitter. The guy had the ability to be a dangerous hitter, and some of that ability was finally seeing the light of day.
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pinetar
laxarea wrote:


road kill wrote:


laxarea wrote:


indians23 wrote:


What do you guys think about Cameron leading-off? Svuem tried it last year at it worked for a while. Thoughts?


No, it never worked. I never understand why anyone thinks this? He hit .204 in that spot in the regular season and .154 in the playoffs. That was Sveum trying to act like he was doing something different and people loved it cause it wasn't Weeks (nor Yost); but it definitely didn't work.

Hart was BRUTAL as the lead-off hitter as well; .188 with no walks in 32 trips. This year obviously he has been much more patient, but those numbers are starting to dip as well. With the average down to .248.

Other than Counsell, people need to stop thinking there's a player on this team capable of being a prototypical lead-off hitter (from an on-base, work the count stand point). We saw this year Weeks should be up there trying to hit, not walk. Hart is no different except his adjustment needed to be not swinging at garbage, which he's improved. Weeks just let too many pitches go for the sake of "being a leadoff hitter" and didn't give himself good counts.

Counsell's the only guy I trust to see strikes and be able to put together a good at-bat.


In all fairness, Cameron batted lead off because of his mind set.
He is a level headed guy, and the pressure wouldn't effect his play one way or the other.
Everyone knows he is not a "proto-typical" lead off hitter.

I mean, outside of Brock, Henderson & Carew who is??

1. Agreed, at least that's what Sveum said, and it's probably true- heck I'm a Cameron fan. It just didn't work nearly as well as people think it did. Not saying you're one of those people. I still think Sveum did it to not be Yost (since Weeks was having a great September again, as was Durham) ... but that's neither here nor there.

2. Also COMPLETELY agree ... and that's kind of what I was trying to get across, the majority of the people here want their leadoff hitter to see 8 pitches an at-bat, hit .300 and have a near .400 OBP; those guys don't exist. Last year Weeks had a .342 OBP and everyone wanted him out of town, this year he had a .340 OBP and everyone thought he was great ... so really, how bad was he last year?

There are very few guys in the entire league who do what Brewer fans expect of their lead-off hitter. I guess I shouldn't be that surprised by Brewer fans having unrealistic expectations


agreed Brewers fans have very high expectations...but when you know that this player (and players on the team) were drafted as a #1 or #2 pick and they are up on the big league team and you have heard all of the hype the last few years about this player being one of the best, you get preconceived notions that they are going to be great and when they stumble out of the blocks you tend to get upset...

with that said...I was more happy with Weeks a player this year because his defense was second to none in the big leagues...and you add that with his bat and you have one helluva player all of the sudden you didn't have last year...plus with a team having success, it's a little harder to complain about players and lack of production...

I will say this though...I think fans were on the Weeks bandwagon because he was hitting homeruns and Brewers fans seem to associate hitting homeruns with being a good player when thats not always the case...at least your "average" Brewer fan uses that to gauge players
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clutch32
I agree that people think weeks is having a great year because he is hitting home runs but he's not only doing that and I believe a lot of brewer fans see this and are smarter than you think. He is hitting rbi's, his average is up (even though he is walking less), his defense has improved, and he is still scoring a lot of runs.

It will hurt that he is out but i think there are plenty of options out there that we can think about. Whether its the internal options of counsell, mcgahee, and hall. The prospects with irrabarren, and escobar. Free agents durham, grudzelanek, or a trade...(brian roberts?)
The Closer
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pinetar
I think DeRosa would be a great fit for the Crew but IDK what we would trade for him...basically if we got him it would be us getting DeRosa from the cubs for nothing...
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