David Ullsperger
With CMH going down to D4 this year, there has obviously been a lot of conversations about how it us "unfair" that they are now down a division. I will preface this with saying there is nothing CMH is supposed to do other than play who is on the schedule and that they are definitely worthy of a state championship. Clearly their level of play was far superior than the 5 opponents they played in the playoffs, while putting a running clock on 4/5 of them.

With that being said what could the WIAA do to protect this from happening again? Is there anything? I've heard a lot of suggestions and a lot of them were thrown out to Travis last night. All private school playoff? 1.5/2x enrollment multiplier? Average out their conference enrollment and put them in that division? 

I'd love to hear some more ideas.
Quote 0 0
jess23
The private school advantage is basically void in Divisions 1-3.  Divisions 5/6 id probably where most complaints have come.  
Quote 0 0
baker18

With CMH going down to D4 this year, there has obviously been a lot of conversations about how it us "unfair" that they are now down a division. I will preface this with saying there is nothing CMH is supposed to do other than play who is on the schedule and that they are definitely worthy of a state championship. Clearly their level of play was far superior than the 5 opponents they played in the playoffs, while putting a running clock on 4/5 of them.

With that being said what could the WIAA do to protect this from happening again? Is there anything? I've heard a lot of suggestions and a lot of them were thrown out to Travis last night. All private school playoff? 1.5/2x enrollment multiplier? Average out their conference enrollment and put them in that division? 

I'd love to hear some more ideas.


What can the WIAA do? Make them play in D1 or D2 for post season considering that is who they compete against all year. Enrollment aside, they are a d1 team where nearly every one of their starters would be starting for larger programs. How is any d4 or d3 school for that matter supposed to compete with that. That would be like taking Muskego and putting them in d4 if their enrollment dropped. 

 

I get the rules and their is nothing CM can do, but at some point the WIAA has to realize that CM plays D1 schools all year with out very much issue. What do you think will happen when they move to D4? Same can be said about Springs. Yes they are d6 based on size, but they could compete in d3 or d4. Private schools in smaller divisions always have advantages because they get D1.D2 level kids. I have always been of the proponent that if you play in a d1 conference during the season than that is where you should play come post seaosn time regardless of size.

 

Other wise do what Texas and other states do and skip divisions and go district. By going district, no one is given a free pass and anyone can play anyone in a specific district no matter what the size may be. That way the two best teams will clearly emerge and could make state. 

Quote 0 0
blade12
Just hand out participation ribbons.  
Quote 0 0
db11
CMH will no longer be playing D1 schools next year. What will the excuse be then?

At the very least, they need to adopt their basketball rule that makes state qualifiers unable to drop down a division the following year.

You had three 2018 State Champs drop down a division this year. Two of them won State Titles. The other was knocked out by the State Champ. That just can't happen.

Beyond that any changes that need to be made are gonna have to wait until we see how the playoff field shapes up with the new conference re-alignments and everybody playing seven conference games (plus large defection to 8-Man). It may change the dynamic of who qualifies quite a bit. Will there be noticeable cutline shifts?
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
Quote 1 0
baker18
db11 wrote:
CMH will no longer be playing D1 schools next year. What will the excuse be then?

At the very least, they need to adopt their basketball rule that makes state qualifiers unable to drop down a division the following year.

You had three 2018 State Champs drop down a division this year. Two of them won State Titles. The other was knocked out by the State Champ. That just can't happen.

Beyond that any changes that need to be made are gonna have to wait until we see how the playoff field shapes up with the new conference re-alignments and everybody playing seven conference games (plus large defection to 8-Man). It may change the dynamic of who qualifies quite a bit. Will there be noticeable cutline shifts?


I agree with your first point about not being able to drop a division after winning the title the year before. If they want to play up that is one thing but they should not be able to drop down
Quote 0 0
fruitpower
Coming from MN, there are many great things about the WIAA playoffs but one question I have always had is, Does a school have the choice to opt up a Division once playoff qualifiers are determined?  That is what pushes some top tier MN schools, Totino Grace and Cretin to opt up since they had enough success at their natural placement and wanted to give their kids the best possible exposure and level of competition.
Quote 0 0
traviswilson
fruitpower wrote:
Coming from MN, there are many great things about the WIAA playoffs but one question I have always had is, Does a school have the choice to opt up a Division once playoff qualifiers are determined?  That is what pushes some top tier MN schools, Totino Grace and Cretin to opt up since they had enough success at their natural placement and wanted to give their kids the best possible exposure and level of competition.

Teams can opt up in every sport but football. As far as I'm aware, only three teams have ever done so: Milwaukee Washington in boys basketball (5-6 years ago and only stayed up for two years), Pius or Nicolet in girls hoops (can't remember which, but whichever it was only stayed up the two required years), and Lake Country Lutheran girls volleyball.
The Packers/Badgers/Brewers are like your children; you don't love them because they're good, you love them because they're yours.
10/22/2010 -- 598,210 pageviews for WSN
Follow me on Twitter: @travisWSN
Quote 0 0
kenny78
baker18 wrote:


What can the WIAA do? Make them play in D1 or D2 for post season considering that is who they compete against all year. Enrollment aside, they are a d1 team where nearly every one of their starters would be starting for larger programs. How is any d4 or d3 school for that matter supposed to compete with that. That would be like taking Muskego and putting them in d4 if their enrollment dropped. 

 

 

I get the rules and their is nothing CM can do, but at some point the WIAA has to realize that CM plays D1 schools all year with out very much issue. What do you think will happen when they move to D4? Same can be said about Springs. Yes they are d6 based on size, but they could compete in d3 or d4. Private schools in smaller divisions always have advantages because they get D1.D2 level kids. I have always been of the proponent that if you play in a d1 conference during the season than that is where you should play come post seaosn time regardless of size.

 

Other wise do what Texas and other states do and skip divisions and go district. By going district, no one is given a free pass and anyone can play anyone in a specific district no matter what the size may be. That way the two best teams will clearly emerge and could make state. 



Perhaps the dumbest thing I have read on this site in a very long time. Congratulations. Tell me, what about the advantages that Edgar, Stratford, Black Hawk, etc have? They seem to be powerhouses in the smaller divisions yet no beef with them?
Quote 1 0
db11
Community-based vs. region-based.

Folks can be real territorial about these things.

The perception when you beat Edgar is that you're beating Edgar kids...whereas a CMH kinda feels akin to a Waukesha County all-star team.

Dumb? No. Misguided? Perhaps.

Also, FWIW, looking at shear numbers, Black Hawk may be falling back to the crowd shortly, graduating over half their program.
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
Quote 0 0
tigerguy
An idea that nobody will get behind and overall probably isn't a good idea, but if you win a division you cannot drop down, but take it one step further.  You win D6 this year, you have to go up to D5 next year.  But that's hard to do when you have a senior laden team and just penalizes a 'younger' team the next year.  But definitely should not be able to drop down a division.
Quote 1 0
smokin
It is nobodies fault that a few of last years state champs when down a division.  It happened because many of the smaller schools in the state went to 8 man or combined, therefore there were less small schools and the bottom schools in divisions dropped down.  It will happen again next year also.
Quote 0 0
tigerguy
I have to imagine that D7 will be eliminated soon as well or basically turned into 8-man division.  So that will help a little bit.
Quote 0 0
boneman56
States like Texas and Florida have district play, all based on enrollment. The topic of three teams moving down will be discussed by the coaches association over the winter, this shouldn't happen. Wisconsin needs to look at Indiana's success formula and consider it, if you play in a state final two years in a row, win or lose you move up a division. 
Quote 0 0
hashmarken34
Most of what is being said in this thread is just an overreaction. Nothing stays the same in football. St. Mary Springs will not be a powerhouse football program forever. Their head coach will likely only be coaching for a few more years, at most. A new school will come in and "replace" them. Startaford went to state for 6 years in a row one time and now they are up and down regularly. 

Menomonie dominated the 90's at the D2 level and now haven't won a state title since 2002 and their head coach is nearing retirement. 

Muskego was rarely any good and now have a solid program rolling at a high level. 

Teams come and go. Good coaches come and go. 

With the new conferences starting next year there will be changes on who makes the playoffs and how that impacts the divisional placements since all teams will now be required to play 7 conference games.
Quote 1 0
wissportsnet

Boys Basketball Alumni Round-up: February 21st, from @ColtonWilson23 #wisbb -- https://t.co/0K6CZzZWpf https://t.co/715tfpBGVS

wissportsnet

WSN15: Boys Basketball Top Teams #12 -- Two NCAA Division I players at one WIAA Division 4 school = state champions… https://t.co/1MThqzce9L

wissportsnet

Predicting winners of every state wrestling title plus a look By The Numbers, from @Nate_Woelfel -… https://t.co/HgU1bLP7d6

wissportsnet

Join the free Boys Basketball Playoff Pick 'Em Contest; Staff picks coming Tuesday #wisbb -- https://t.co/Y6yTA3OgP8 https://t.co/hA6Uyw9uje