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woodhoops
"P.S. the final voting was 7-4. So 4 people who actually get a vote didn't think it was too crazy to give LeBron the MVP."

Is anyone else suspicious that Curry didn't get a single vote? Seems really odd. If you limit it to Golden State players, he should at least get one?
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dawgstyle
riseagainst wrote:
If Lebron had played in the West over the course of his career, not only would he not have made 5 straight finals appearances, but he most likely would be ring-less at this point. I don't say that to knock on Lebron, it's just reality. Let's not forget that Lebron is 1 Ray Allen 3-pointer, and one epic, catastrophic Spurs collapse, away from being 1-5 in the finals. So to think that Lebron could have lead a team to a championship while having to go through 3 rounds of Western Conference opponents is stretch for me.

And as far as the media trying to hype up Lebron as deserving the MVP of the finals even if he lost, that's a complete joke and just another attempt to try to put Lebron on some undeserving pedestal after yet ANOTHER finals loss. Take a look at two comparable NBA Finals stats.

Player A:
PPG: 35.8
Reb: 13.3
Ast: 8.8
FG%: .398

Player B:
PPG: 35.6
Reb: 5.6
Ast: 3.8
FG%: .407

Player A (Lebron) boasted better stats than Player B, but nothing that is "otherworldly", to take a phrase out of the media's description of Lebron's finals performance. Can anybody guess who Player B is? Do you think Player B was even remotely talked about in the MVP conversation? Spoiler Alert: Hell no!

The bottom line is that ESPN and all the sports talking heads will continue to make excuses for Lebron and blame every single finals loss on his "lack of a supporting cast" rather than actually point the finger at Lebron for his stubborn style of play and inability to make anybody else around him better, other than spot up 3 point shooters like Ray Allen, Mike Miller, etc.


First off you'd have to take into account that if LeBron was in the West, he would be playing on a team from the west with talent. How good with Memphis be with LeBron? How about The Clippers? It's not fair to say he would be ringless unless you are to suggest he would be on one of the awful bottom feeders. All those great teams, one would be that much greater with LeBron.

As for your stats, those two stat lines aren't really close. 8 rebounds and 5 assists a game isn't exactly just peanuts in the finals. Look at the more in depth stats. LeBron scored or assisted on (I believe) 72% of the Cavs points. 72%!!!! The stats do nothing but support how awful his supporting cast is. It's not an excuse, its a verifiable fact.

Lastly player B clearly isn't from these NBA Finals. Comparing Player B to someone in this NBA Finals is 100% irrelevant. LeBron was competeting against the people in this NBA Finals, not someone from another year.

Should LeBron have won the MVP? Probably not. Was it that crazy to consider giving it to him? Hell no!

P.S. the final voting was 7-4. So 4 people who actually get a vote didn't think it was too crazy to give LeBron the MVP.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
Quote 0 0
dawgstyle
'14 MVP Kawhi: 17.8 pts, 6.4 reb, 2 ast
'15 MVP Iguodala: 16.3 pts, 5.8 reb, 4 ast
'15 LeBron (per half): 17.9 pts, 6.7 reb, 4.4 ast

Not using this to support my statements, just found it interesting stats.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
Quote 0 0
buzzerbeater2
dawgstyle wrote:
thebillwaltontrip wrote:
I'm saying that given his abysmal track record in the Finals, there's no way he'd get through three rounds in the West and make the Finals year after year. LeBron doesn't have the capacity from a basketball skill stand point, a basketball IQ standpoint, or a mental toughness standpoint to get up to that level of competition three rounds in a row.


But if he is getting out of the first round every year, his record is atleast .500. That is what I was trying to tell you is wrong with your stats on his record against the east vs his record against the west. It's skewed. TAKE A STATS CLASS.


When are you two going to get it over with and just start making out?
Mike McCarthy is challenging the ruling on the field that he has 3 timeouts remaining.
Charter member of the WSN 1000-post Culb.

* - Banned for life from any WSN "Hall of Fame."

Quote 0 0
dawgstyle
buzzerbeater2 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
thebillwaltontrip wrote:
I'm saying that given his abysmal track record in the Finals, there's no way he'd get through three rounds in the West and make the Finals year after year. LeBron doesn't have the capacity from a basketball skill stand point, a basketball IQ standpoint, or a mental toughness standpoint to get up to that level of competition three rounds in a row.


But if he is getting out of the first round every year, his record is atleast .500. That is what I was trying to tell you is wrong with your stats on his record against the east vs his record against the west. It's skewed. TAKE A STATS CLASS.


When are you two going to get it over with and just start making out?


I grabbed a hold of him last night at the bar but he pulled away. I guess he isn't ready to come out yet. Sorry.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
Quote 0 0
safetysqueezepleezzee11
thebillwaltontrip wrote:
You're nuts if you don't think bringing up the glaring disparity between the strengths of the conferences has no bearing on leading teams to playoff appearances, NBA Finals appearances, and championships.

LeFraud is 23-4 in playoff series against the East and is now 2-4 in playoff series against the West. He has as many playoff series losses against the West as he does against the East in nearly 1/5 the number of series!

I rest my case!


dawgstyle
READ and COMPREHEND what TBWT wrote here.
No need to drag garbage in to try to make stats the culprit.
He stated that Lebron is 23-4 in series against the East in the playoffs and only 2-4 in series against
the West. Yes, those were finals against the Western conference, but unless Lebron was on those
teams in the West, his team would have had to BEAT them to make it to the finals.
Lebron has racked up many series wins against the weaker Eastern conference.
His teams havent been very successful against the Western conference.
Try not to read into or past a simple post.
Had Lebron played on a team in the Western conference it is very very conceivable he makes only 1 or 2 OR
perhaps NO finals.
This doesn't change the fact that Lebron is the best player in the league at this time, it simply shows
how a TEAM wins and not an individual when it comes to championships.
Quote 0 0
dawgstyle
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
bhsblackhawks wrote:
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
thebillwaltontrip wrote:
I'm saying that given his abysmal track record in the Finals, there's no way he'd get through three rounds in the West and make the Finals year after year. LeBron doesn't have the capacity from a basketball skill stand point, a basketball IQ standpoint, or a mental toughness standpoint to get up to that level of competition three rounds in a row.


But if he is getting out of the first round every year, his record is atleast .500. That is what I was trying to tell you is wrong with your stats on his record against the east vs his record against the west. It's skewed. TAKE A STATS CLASS.


There is nothing skewed about going 2-4 in the finals against the West. It is what it is.
Obviously James' team has won 3 series each of those years against teams from the East to get to the final.
So if you total all the series, he would be over .500 obviously.
I don't think that is what TBWT is talking about.
You cant mix the series against the West with the series against the East.
It isn't a stretch to see that James' teams would have a much tougher road against 3 West teams to make a final.


What are you babbling about? He is comparing his record against the east vs his record against the west. Please read his post.

Quote:
LeFraud is 23-4 in playoff series against the East and is now 2-4 in playoff series against the West. He has as many playoff series losses against the West as he does against the East in nearly 1/5 the number of series!


You are the one babbling. You may not agree with what TBWT is saying, but he does have a point.
Not sure why you are dragging stats into this, unless you have nothing else.
In the years James' team made the finals, his team went 18-0 in series against teams from the East. With the
West being so overwhelmingly better over the years, his team went only 2-4 in final series against the West.
TBWT seems to be saying that Lebron simply would not have made that many finals if he played in the West.
Stats wont prove anything because this is a 'hypothetical' situation: ie that Lebron plays in the West and
has to win 3 series to make the finals. It hasn't happened and most likely never will.
One of us is misunderstanding what TBWT is saying and I don't think it is me. Perhaps TBWT can set it straight.

WHAT?!?!?! He's dragging stats into this because literally every rational stat shows that he's right. You can twist stats to say what you want, but you can't look at every single reasonable, logical, rationally-created stat and be like, "Nah, those are stupid." Believe it or not, stats mean things. Unbiased stats mean a lot. If you refuse to acknowledge stats then you're either smarter than every mathematician or you're an idiot. I can pretty much guarantee you're not smarter than every mathematician.


You proceeded to go past everything I stated. I simply think TBWT seemed to be intoning that James' team
simply wouldn't have made 6 finals IF they had to play out of the West. I don't see how stats are going
to prove a hypothetical one way or the other.
It would be similar to using stats to prove or disprove that the Wisc Badger football team would have made it to
all those Big 10 championship games IF they were in the other division. I think most people would pretty much
agree Wisc would NOT have made it to those championship games and stats are simply not needed.


He was the one that originally compared the two records, as I quoted. So how exactly am I misunderstanding him. If he wanted to say LeBron wouldn't have made the finals had he played in the west, he could have done so. HE is the one that introduced the stats of LeBrons record against the East vs his record against the West. Not me.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
Quote 0 0
dawgstyle
http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/13099158/nba-finals-lebron-james-accomplished-losing-finals

In case you can't read it, I will let you in on a small section. The first year the Lakers won the title with Shaq, is regarded as one of the worst supporting casts to ever win a title. Take that into your Kobe consideration.

Anyway, just another person pointing out how lucky we are to be witnessing LeBron play.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
Quote 0 0
dawgstyle
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
thebillwaltontrip wrote:
You're nuts if you don't think bringing up the glaring disparity between the strengths of the conferences has no bearing on leading teams to playoff appearances, NBA Finals appearances, and championships.

LeFraud is 23-4 in playoff series against the East and is now 2-4 in playoff series against the West. He has as many playoff series losses against the West as he does against the East in nearly 1/5 the number of series!

I rest my case!


dawgstyle
READ and COMPREHEND what TBWT wrote here.
No need to drag garbage in to try to make stats the culprit.
He stated that Lebron is 23-4 in series against the East in the playoffs and only 2-4 in series against
the West. Yes, those were finals against the Western conference, but unless Lebron was on those
teams in the West, his team would have had to BEAT them to make it to the finals.
Lebron has racked up many series wins against the weaker Eastern conference.
His teams havent been very successful against the Western conference.
Try not to read into or past a simple post.
Had Lebron played on a team in the Western conference it is very very conceivable he makes only 1 or 2 OR
perhaps NO finals.
This doesn't change the fact that Lebron is the best player in the league at this time, it simply shows
how a TEAM wins and not an individual when it comes to championships.


It's also conceivable he makes 5 straight if he is playing in San Antonio.

Anyway I did read and comprehend. Now its your turn. Read the bolded section. That is a skewed statistic, Because LeBron only plays the best team in the west while he plays the bottom of the East. He clearly would have a better record against the West if he was playing in the West. If you can't understand that then you need to go back to high school and take math.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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