thebillwaltontrip
The most iconic & charismatic sports figure of the 21st. century, former 3x heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali has passed away at the age of 74. Unbelievable, don't even know what to say.
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db11
An American hero, with flaws just like anyone else. A character before his time, with an untoppable mythos.

His presence will be missed.

Hard to believe it was 20 years ago that he lit the flame in Atlanta. Given his condition then, amazing he lived another two decades.
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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icons
More famous people should die. At least we get a break from the endless political crap on the news channels.
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thebillwaltontrip
db11 wrote:
An American hero, with flaws just like anyone else. A character before his time, with an untoppable mythos.

His presence will be missed.

Hard to believe it was 20 years ago that he lit the flame in Atlanta. Given his condition then, amazing he lived another two decades.


I was actually hesitant to even post it at the time because I couldn't believe it; at the time, the only confirmation was that it had been announced at the Miami Marlins game and there was a "Breaking News" ticker on top of ABC News' website but the article that was linked to it was dated from 2013; I assume they had such a piece written up in advance for him.
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dawgstyle
Not trying to turn this political, but when his country called for him he fled rather than stand among those brave enough to stand up and be counted so he could have a career as a fighter.

So to his passing, I say meh.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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safetysqueezepleezzee11
dawgstyle wrote:
Not trying to turn this political, but when his country called for him he fled rather than stand among those brave enough to stand up and be counted so he could have a career as a fighter.

So to his passing, I say meh.


As a Nam vet, I can honestly say that I always admired Ali for sticking to his convictions. After I found out what Nam was all about, I realize that enlisting to serve in that war was the biggest mistake of my life. I could have easily used a 'farmer' or college deferment. Serving in the US military was just what my family(the men) all did. I always gave Ali credit because he had the balls to stick to his convictions and not just go to Canada. I think most of us vets or the Nam era feel that way. The WWII guys had no use for Ali though. Some of that was probably because he was black but much of it with the WWII guys was they felt it was their duty. I also felt that way UNTIL I spent my time in Nam.
Ali was WAY WAY ahead of the rest of us dopes in that regard.

Ali "DIDNT" flee - he was basically in 'jail' with release. I have little use for the guys who went to Canada - I do admit that, but I have great regard for Ali and most vets do.
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db11
dawgstyle wrote:
Not trying to turn this political, but when his country called for him he fled rather than stand among those brave enough to stand up and be counted so he could have a career as a fighter.

So to his passing, I say meh.


That's certainly part of the narrative...

...but it shouldn't be the entire narrative.
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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safetysqueezepleezzee11
dawgstyle wrote:
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
Not trying to turn this political, but when his country called for him he fled rather than stand among those brave enough to stand up and be counted so he could have a career as a fighter.

So to his passing, I say meh.


As a Nam vet, I can honestly say that I always admired Ali for sticking to his convictions. After I found out what Nam was all about, I realize that enlisting to serve in that war was the biggest mistake of my life. I could have easily used a 'farmer' or college deferment. Serving in the US military was just what my family(the men) all did. I always gave Ali credit because he had the balls to stick to his convictions and not just go to Canada. I think most of us vets or the Nam era feel that way. The WWII guys had no use for Ali though. Some of that was probably because he was black but much of it with the WWII guys was they felt it was their duty. I also felt that way UNTIL I spent my time in Nam.
Ali was WAY WAY ahead of the rest of us dopes in that regard.

Ali "DIDNT" flee - he was basically in 'jail' with release. I have little use for the guys who went to Canada - I do admit that, but I have great regard for Ali and most vets do.

Please don't attempt to speak for "most vets."


I need to clarify my post. I don't portend to speak for "most vets". I can only speak for those that I served with and those that I know from the Nam era(family, friends, school mates, and others I have met after I spent my time in the army during Nam). When I used the word 'most', I can see that wasn't the correct word to use. I should have clarified that it was most of the Nam vets that I personally knew/know.
I actually didn't agree with what Ali did initially and during my tour. When I returned to the US and talked with others about what I saw and what they saw, my regards for Ali only intensified. If you didn't live thru the Nam era, it is very hard for those of us who did to explain what went on. Of the guys I know that are still around, most of us tend to avoid the topic as much as possible. To compare WWI, WWII, Korea or vets after the Nam era is impossible. I can understand why people would look back at what Ali did and crucify him for it(my dad still despises Ali to this day). My dad enlisted and served during WWII - a war that the US was attacked. That wasn't the case in Nam. I can also understand why those who were either too young or not born yet during the Nam era to not really understand what us vets went thru before, during and after Nam. I don't fully understand the WWII and Korea vets.
Korea was probably as close to what we did in Nam as any conflict, but I don't know very many Korea vets to compare.
I can understand both sides of the situation because I was there. I don't have any problem if people choose to vilify Ali.
I can see both sides of what Ali did and I choose to see the good/better side. Neither side is 100% correct. We all have to choose.
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thebillwaltontrip
A person can blame Ali for not wanting to go fight in Vietnam about as much as they can blame people from my generation for not jumping up to enlist and go fight over in Iraq. If your country's freedom is under attack, it's one thing. When your country feels like cooking up tall tales of misconception and lies to get into conflict to show who the "boss" is on the planet, it's another. A lot of great people from that generation & my generation lost their lives and their minds essentially for nothing. Back then the draft existed so it put a lot of pressure on people to feel like they had to join an unjust cause that they didn't believe in and I applaud Ali for using his platform to speak out against it.
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hueby
As you can see the 60's were a terrible time for America. It really tore us a part. You could put a room full of people together from that era, bring up these topics and the room would erupt. Yes a can of worms but a lot to learn from!

When I was a kid I liked that song "Black Superman" about Ali. Personally I didn't care for his talking or taunting. Like calling Joe Frazier a Gorilla,etc but then I learned he was trying to anger Frazier & get him off his game- which worked.

A couple months before Ali lit the torch in Atlanta, my wife and I were at the Olive Garden in Louisville, Ky when we saw Ali and his family there. He was surrounded by some people as he was performing his "magic tricks." We did talk to his wife. She was like "Oh here we go again" telling us how they were out the night before and how Ali spent an hour talking with the people. She told us "how he loved people" and was used to him spending time with them. She would just stand off to the side.

He didn' t look like the man I saw on television as he shook (like you see in the torch lighting video). I didn't know about the Parkinson's or what it was then. But I will always have that memory of him.

The Louisville paper would run stories on him. I faintly remember one about when he threw his medal in the river - I think the story was about a replica medal someone gave him or recovered the original? Can't remember.

One I always remembered though is when he was a kid, he'd stand with his back to the wall of building & have his brother throw rocks at him! This forced him to shuffle, move his feet and work on his quickness!
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hueby
Oh PS here is that old song for those who never heard it:




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dawgstyle
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
Not trying to turn this political, but when his country called for him he fled rather than stand among those brave enough to stand up and be counted so he could have a career as a fighter.

So to his passing, I say meh.


As a Nam vet, I can honestly say that I always admired Ali for sticking to his convictions. After I found out what Nam was all about, I realize that enlisting to serve in that war was the biggest mistake of my life. I could have easily used a 'farmer' or college deferment. Serving in the US military was just what my family(the men) all did. I always gave Ali credit because he had the balls to stick to his convictions and not just go to Canada. I think most of us vets or the Nam era feel that way. The WWII guys had no use for Ali though. Some of that was probably because he was black but much of it with the WWII guys was they felt it was their duty. I also felt that way UNTIL I spent my time in Nam.
Ali was WAY WAY ahead of the rest of us dopes in that regard.

Ali "DIDNT" flee - he was basically in 'jail' with release. I have little use for the guys who went to Canada - I do admit that, but I have great regard for Ali and most vets do.

Please don't attempt to speak for "most vets."


I need to clarify my post. I don't portend to speak for "most vets". I can only speak for those that I served with and those that I know from the Nam era(family, friends, school mates, and others I have met after I spent my time in the army during Nam). When I used the word 'most', I can see that wasn't the correct word to use. I should have clarified that it was most of the Nam vets that I personally knew/know.
I actually didn't agree with what Ali did initially and during my tour. When I returned to the US and talked with others about what I saw and what they saw, my regards for Ali only intensified. If you didn't live thru the Nam era, it is very hard for those of us who did to explain what went on. Of the guys I know that are still around, most of us tend to avoid the topic as much as possible. To compare WWI, WWII, Korea or vets after the Nam era is impossible. I can understand why people would look back at what Ali did and crucify him for it(my dad still despises Ali to this day). My dad enlisted and served during WWII - a war that the US was attacked. That wasn't the case in Nam. I can also understand why those who were either too young or not born yet during the Nam era to not really understand what us vets went thru before, during and after Nam. I don't fully understand the WWII and Korea vets.
Korea was probably as close to what we did in Nam as any conflict, but I don't know very many Korea vets to compare.
I can understand both sides of the situation because I was there. I don't have any problem if people choose to vilify Ali.
I can see both sides of what Ali did and I choose to see the good/better side. Neither side is 100% correct. We all have to choose.

Fair enough, sorry if it seemed like I was blowing up, wasn't my intention. Appreciate your service to this great country.

In the end my.problem remains that not agreeing with something doesn't preclude you from following the law. The man knowingly committed a felony and never spent a day in prison for it. Great fighter, but that's where it stops for me.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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dfnewburry
No citizen of Vietnam ever called Ali the n word , but some of his critics ... Well








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dawgstyle
thebillwaltontrip wrote:
A person can blame Ali for not wanting to go fight in Vietnam about as much as they can blame people from my generation for not jumping up to enlist and go fight over in Iraq. If your country's freedom is under attack, it's one thing. When your country feels like cooking up tall tales of misconception and lies to get into conflict to show who the "boss" is on the planet, it's another. A lot of great people from that generation & my generation lost their lives and their minds essentially for nothing. Back then the draft existed so it put a lot of pressure on people to feel like they had to join an unjust cause that they didn't believe in and I applaud Ali for using his platform to speak out against it.

The members of my family currently serving believe you are full of shit.

@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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dawgstyle
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
Not trying to turn this political, but when his country called for him he fled rather than stand among those brave enough to stand up and be counted so he could have a career as a fighter.

So to his passing, I say meh.


As a Nam vet, I can honestly say that I always admired Ali for sticking to his convictions. After I found out what Nam was all about, I realize that enlisting to serve in that war was the biggest mistake of my life. I could have easily used a 'farmer' or college deferment. Serving in the US military was just what my family(the men) all did. I always gave Ali credit because he had the balls to stick to his convictions and not just go to Canada. I think most of us vets or the Nam era feel that way. The WWII guys had no use for Ali though. Some of that was probably because he was black but much of it with the WWII guys was they felt it was their duty. I also felt that way UNTIL I spent my time in Nam.
Ali was WAY WAY ahead of the rest of us dopes in that regard.

Ali "DIDNT" flee - he was basically in 'jail' with release. I have little use for the guys who went to Canada - I do admit that, but I have great regard for Ali and most vets do.

Please don't attempt to speak for "most vets."
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
Quote 0 0
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