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db11
blade12 wrote:


Asking for your opinion here:  Would it benefit kids and help with academic, discipline or fading away issues if some of the largest schools in the state used the West Bend model and created a second set of athletic teams within the same school, creating more opportunities for kids to be part of teams?  Or are there too many outside factors that no matter the opportunities that become available to kids nothing much changes?


Theoretically, yes. But the harsh reality is there has been a precipitous drop in participation in some of the larger schools to the point of some levels having to be dropped from time-to-time.

Also, there is a dearth of coaches who are A) good enough to make a difference in these schools and B) Understanding of the extra amount of work that needs to be put in to just find a level of program consistency.

It's no surprise the turnover rate is so high and even some of the more-tenured coaches in these areas have moved on in recent years. I think burnout is even more real in these situations. Wouldn't surprise me in the least to see two of the coaches down in Racine step down after this year just from watching how their body language while on the sideline has changed over the last few years.
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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blade12
db11 wrote:


Theoretically, yes. But the harsh reality is there has been a precipitous drop in participation in some of the larger schools to the point of some levels having to be dropped from time-to-time.

Also, there is a dearth of coaches who are A) good enough to make a difference in these schools and B) Understanding of the extra amount of work that needs to be put in to just find a level of program consistency.

It's no surprise the turnover rate is so high and even some of the more-tenured coaches in these areas have moved on in recent years. I think burnout is even more real in these situations. Wouldn't surprise me in the least to see two of the coaches down in Racine step down after this year just from watching how their body language while on the sideline has changed over the last few years.


Crap, I had a long thought out response ready to send, opened a new window to go back and check on something and lost it.

The abridged version:
If largest schools split like West Bend would it:
Create more playing opportunities for kids?
Keep kids involved in sports longer and away from other influences?
Increase participation?
Give coaches greater satisfaction knowing they are better able to reach kids? Don't be a little bit to all, be everything to a select few.
Make coaching situations more manageable with smaller rosters and less daunting and attract new and younger people into the profession? 

If NCAA coaches value multi sport athletes as they say they do and IF the benefits and value of HS sports goes beyond W's and L's, I don't know why more larger schools don't explore this set up.

If this were to happen the WIAA could adjust the arbitrary 1200/600 divisions splits and that would seem to be more equitable on down the line (getting back to the 4 div vs 5 div, urban/rural type discussion.)
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db11
blade12 wrote:


Crap, I had a long thought out response ready to send, opened a new window to go back and check on something and lost it.

The abridged version:
If largest schools split like West Bend would it:
Create more playing opportunities for kids?
Keep kids involved in sports longer and away from other influences?
Increase participation?
Give coaches greater satisfaction knowing they are better able to reach kids? Don't be a little bit to all, be everything to a select few.
Make coaching situations more manageable with smaller rosters and less daunting and attract new and younger people into the profession? 

If NCAA coaches value multi sport athletes as they say they do and IF the benefits and value of HS sports goes beyond W's and L's, I don't know why more larger schools don't explore this set up.

If this were to happen the WIAA could adjust the arbitrary 1200/600 divisions splits and that would seem to be more equitable on down the line (getting back to the 4 div vs 5 div, urban/rural type discussion.)


The biggest problem is that the problems of participation start long before the kids get to the school.

So while it's more opportunity, it may just be more opportunity for kids who were less likely to make other varsity teams anyway.

If you'll notice the split out in West Bend hasn't exactly created anything more than two average athletic programs across the board.

Urban basketball-speaking...massive enrollment fluctuations with some MPS schools haven't exactly produced any quality teams of note.
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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blade12
db11 wrote:


The biggest problem is that the problems of participation start long before the kids get to the school.

So while it's more opportunity, it may just be more opportunity for kids who were less likely to make other varsity teams anyway.

If you'll notice the split out in West Bend hasn't exactly created anything more than two average athletic programs across the board.

Urban basketball-speaking...massive enrollment fluctuations with some MPS schools haven't exactly produced any quality teams of note.


But that's kind of the point.  How many kids in a school of 2000 would like to have a chance to make a team but won't because they are not one of the top 12-14 players and they don't specialize or they would like to play another sport in the summer, or the school added 2 transfer kids?  

If WB or MPS schools are already not "successful" (I want to be mindful of how that can be defined and mean no disrespect to WB or MPS schools) then a split school isn't going to change that for the worse and it may actually put them in D2 depending upon how the enrollment breakdown plays out.  

What is the role of HS athletics? How would the WIAA or the school admin answer that? Would the AD or the coach have a different answer?  Is it to win championships? Is it to provide alternative learning environments that also teach kids valuable lessons?  I would guess if we tried to answer that somewhere along the line we would come across comments like "to allow opportunities..."  well, are we allowing opportunities when schools get larger and don't expand their sports offerings?

Maybe we'd have to speak of a specific school(s) and specific sport to give more accurate examples.
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gstacy
Well, the game is going down this Saturday. I don't see how Aquinas can hang with them but you never know. Wonder if there will be any type of live coverage?
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db11
Hopkins 45
Aquinas 29

Halftime
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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db11
Hopkins 82
Aquinas 61

Final

Lexi Donarski had 33 for Aquinas. Hopkins had four in double figures.
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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2miler
db11 wrote:
Hopkins 82
Aquinas 61

Final

Lexi Donarski had 33 for Aquinas. Hopkins had four in double figures.


The Aquinas girls can hold their heads up after this one.
Hopkins:1656 students
Aquinas:338 students

Happened to catch last night's #1 Hopkins(19-0) vs, #8 Eden Prairie(16-3) on http://www.prepspotlight.tv(looking for a livestream of today's game......no luck) and the Royals(great name by the way)of Hopkins cruised 70-38 over a very talented team in EP.

Hopkins has the #1 National recruit for the class of 2020 in Paige Boeckers(string bean shooting guard)(she of the no-look passes and fade away 3-pointers)(played for the USA team last summer in Argentina) who scored 43 when Hopkins beat previously unbeaten #2 Wayzata(19-1) last week in front of 4000 fans.They are so loaded that they've even got a talented 8th grader playing for them.(now that's recruiting). I think they've played in the last 3 state championship games(still looking to win one though) and are favored to win this time around. The Blugolds unfortunately met their match.....and then some.
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gzonnefeld
Minnesota allows 7th and 8th graders to play at the varsity level.  I recall back when I was in school a player scored their 1000th point during her freshman year.  Later played volleyball and basketball at Kansas State.  Funny how recruiting is the assumption right away...  ðŸ™„
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2miler
gzonnefeld wrote:
Minnesota allows 7th and 8th graders to play at the varsity level.  I recall back when I was in school a player scored their 1000th point during her freshman year.  Later played volleyball and basketball at Kansas State.  Funny how recruiting is the assumption right away...  Ã°Å¸â„¢â€ž


I guess the Freshman doesn't recognize a joke.
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gstacy
No shame in losing to a team like that. Wouldn't you like to see them match-up against a Beaver Dam type Wisco team?
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bbjones1
gstacy wrote:
No shame in losing to a team like that. Wouldn't you like to see them match-up against a Beaver Dam type Wisco team?


They are on the schedule for Aquinas next year i believe. 
They shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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mickjagger
Feb. 9, 2019

at Hopkins, MN  82
La Crosse Aquinas  61

Final Score

Box Score:
https://www.wissports.net/game/show/24432050?subseason=522632&referrer=4280379
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
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2miler
mickjagger wrote:
Feb. 9, 2019

at Hopkins, MN  82
La Crosse Aquinas  61

Final Score

Box Score:
https://www.wissports.net/game/show/24432050?subseason=522632&referrer=4280379


The Hopkins Royals finally ended up winning the Minnesota State Girls Championship in 4A which is the largest division in the state. They had been runner-ups the last 3 years.

State Final
Hopkins 74
Stillwater 45

They finished 32-0 and won their 3 tournament games by average margins of 25+
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