blade12 Show full post »
longball12
I got a deep bone bruise in my femur, knee cap and my tibia from a massage at Milwaukee Brewers Fantasy Camp. Can you google to find out how many sports related injuries are from sports massages every year? I got an award for dumbest injury as well. The sad thing is that the pain last from February 3rd til April 6th. That's crazy.

I think that common sense should still be used. I play catch with my son almost every night. We aren't going all out. All we have been working on is location and his knuckleball. But he maybe throws at 60-70% with the hard stuff. He worked with Terry Rosenkranz from September to March on strengthening the lower body and proper throwing techniques. I think proper instruction will also save these kids.

Just my opinion. If you could just get some of these youth coaches to teach location rather than breaking stuff, I think you would see a lot less problems with these kids' arms. They say throwing a pitch is not a natural arm action/movement as it is. Why compact the issue right?
Proud And Loving Father Of An Angel Named Derek - 8/4/13

Twitter - @iamlongball
Quote 0 0
blade12
banks93 wrote:
Just so everyone is clear the article said 790 Tommy John surgeries from 2007-2011. 158/year.

I searched how many kids play baseball in high school and it looked like 455,414 kids play baseball.

Let's say 158/year have TJ surgery. This would mean 90 - 15-18 year olds out of 455,414 are playing too much baseball.

Doesn't sound like too much of an issue when you compare it to ACL injuries or concussions.

Kids are not ready to pitch in high school anymore because of how they are brought up throwing in LL. They get to High School and the coach wants to pitch the kid and he is only used to throwing 2-3 innings/game.

Here is an injury that is rampant.
There are between 250,000 and 300,000 ACL injuries per year, and they're almost exclusively happening to athletes. The chances of a nonathlete suffering an ACL injury are 1,000 to 1

over 1.2 million knee injuries in high school athletics during this time frame. 2005-2011

This number is a lot more of an issue but nobody worries about it.


I know I have read somewhere over the years that the LL pitch counts were based on and included the fact that they knew many kids were playing and throwing more outside of LL and year round and so their limits took that into consideration and are probably conservative for that reason. As much as anything I think LL is very conservative because it forces more kids to play the position. Maybe the HS associations are wanting the same increase in participation???

I am not sure if we have seen or know of the long term effects of having TJ at such a young age. Will it mean the same player needs it again in 3 years? 5 years? 10 years? ever? In 10 years that kid is still under age 30. *** EDIT - Chances of a kid having TJ at 18 and still being a professional baseball pitcher at age 28 has got to be minuscule.

I agree kids today get babied and in HS many just don't build the stamina to go 7IP but then again a lot of these kids are throwing a lot more year round too.

Do I dare ask if a player making overhead volleyball serves gets put on a serve limit to protect their rotator cuff?
Quote 0 0
formerwiacbaseballer
blade12 wrote:
banks93 wrote:
Just so everyone is clear the article said 790 Tommy John surgeries from 2007-2011. 158/year.

I searched how many kids play baseball in high school and it looked like 455,414 kids play baseball.

Let's say 158/year have TJ surgery. This would mean 90 - 15-18 year olds out of 455,414 are playing too much baseball.

Doesn't sound like too much of an issue when you compare it to ACL injuries or concussions.

Kids are not ready to pitch in high school anymore because of how they are brought up throwing in LL. They get to High School and the coach wants to pitch the kid and he is only used to throwing 2-3 innings/game.

Here is an injury that is rampant.
There are between 250,000 and 300,000 ACL injuries per year, and they're almost exclusively happening to athletes. The chances of a nonathlete suffering an ACL injury are 1,000 to 1

over 1.2 million knee injuries in high school athletics during this time frame. 2005-2011

This number is a lot more of an issue but nobody worries about it.


I know I have read somewhere over the years that the LL pitch counts were based on and included the fact that they knew many kids were playing and throwing more outside of LL and year round and so their limits took that into consideration and are probably conservative for that reason. As much as anything I think LL is very conservative because it forces more kids to play the position. Maybe the HS associations are wanting the same increase in participation???

I am not sure if we have seen or know of the long term effects of having TJ at such a young age. Will it mean the same player needs it again in 3 years? 5 years? 10 years? ever? In 10 years that kid is still under age 30. *** EDIT - Chances of a kid having TJ at 18 and still being a professional baseball pitcher at age 28 has got to be minuscule.

I agree kids today get babied and in HS many just don't build the stamina to go 7IP but then again a lot of these kids are throwing a lot more year round too.

Do I dare ask if a player making overhead volleyball serves gets put on a serve limit to protect their rotator cuff?

Just to "stir the pot" a little bit, the better comparison might be is if a QB is put on a limit as to how many passes he can attempt in a game....
"Let's Play Two!!!"

Baseball is not a game that builds character, it is a game that reveals it.

"There are three types of baseball players: those who make things happen, those who watch it happen, and those who wonder what happened."
Quote 0 0
smsnyder
banks93 wrote:
Just so everyone is clear the article said 790 Tommy John surgeries from 2007-2011. 158/year.

I searched how many kids play baseball in high school and it looked like 455,414 kids play baseball.

Let's say 158/year have TJ surgery. This would mean 90 - 15-18 year olds out of 455,414 are playing too much baseball.

Doesn't sound like too much of an issue when you compare it to ACL injuries or concussions.

Kids are not ready to pitch in high school anymore because of how they are brought up throwing in LL. They get to High School and the coach wants to pitch the kid and he is only used to throwing 2-3 innings/game.

Here is an injury that is rampant.
There are between 250,000 and 300,000 ACL injuries per year, and they're almost exclusively happening to athletes. The chances of a nonathlete suffering an ACL injury are 1,000 to 1

over 1.2 million knee injuries in high school athletics during this time frame. 2005-2011

This number is a lot more of an issue but nobody worries about it.


Ulnar Collateral Ligament and ACL are both torn ligaments repaired with a graft from another source. But beyond that, they really aren't comparable at all. UCL a very niche injury - from throwing and almost always from just one sport. ACLs are a universal injury - though the rates vary, they happen in pretty much every sport. UCL are almost exclusively a male injury. ACL are either gender though actually more common in female athletes. Most importantly though, in terms of this discussion - UCL are caused by repeated stress. ACL are caused by a single trauma/impact. That is a critical difference. There's conclusive data that shows preventing overuse reduces UCLs. That's not the case with ACLs. If you know of something that can significantly reduce ACL tears, by all means, let's do it. Setting pitch count limits does do that with UCLs.

Focusing solely on Tommy John surgeries also understates the problem as well - maybe drastically so. Unless you believe that everyone who tears their UCL has Tommy John surgery. How many can't afford the surgery or just opt out of going under the knife. How many just give up baseball? Or keep playing but stop pitching? That's not the case with ACLs where opting out of reconstruction is very uncommon - at least for athletes or relatively young non-athletes.

I think Volleyball with rotator cuff injuries is actually a much more apt comparison than QBs throwing. I'd assume volleyball coaches use some discretion as far as how much serving practice players do. But in terms of games, I'd guess the number of serves is much, much less than the number of pitches thrown. With considerably more time/rest in between. Outside hitters might even be a bigger problem than servers. And I'm guessing not a lot of QBs throw 50-100 passes as hard as they can like a pitcher does. I guess I remember seeing Brees throw 83 against the Badgers awhile back - but most of them were 5-15 yard passes.

I'll admit, I don't really know about whether pitchers have been unprepared to pitch adequately in High School as a result. It's not like the pitch count limits have been in place (or actually followed) for all that long. And there were inning limits before they switched to pitch counts. But if that's in fact the case, I guess I have to ask - so what? If Wisconsin high school teams are all forced to use more pitchers in games, what's the harm? The playing field is still level.
Quote 0 0
wissportsnet

Boys Basketball Alumni Round-up: February 21st, from @ColtonWilson23 #wisbb -- https://t.co/0K6CZzZWpf https://t.co/715tfpBGVS

wissportsnet

WSN15: Boys Basketball Top Teams #12 -- Two NCAA Division I players at one WIAA Division 4 school = state champions… https://t.co/1MThqzce9L

wissportsnet

Predicting winners of every state wrestling title plus a look By The Numbers, from @Nate_Woelfel -… https://t.co/HgU1bLP7d6

wissportsnet

Join the free Boys Basketball Playoff Pick 'Em Contest; Staff picks coming Tuesday #wisbb -- https://t.co/Y6yTA3OgP8 https://t.co/hA6Uyw9uje