dietcoke1
I think that makes 12 D-1 verbals so far. The first verbal in quite a while.

Class of 2007 D-1A football signings (12)

Nick Bellore ?- Whitefish Bay ?- LB ?- 6-1 230 -- Central Michigan SE REG
Brandon Brooks ?- Milwaukee-Riverside ?- OG ?- 6-5 285 -- Wisconsin SE REG (soft)
Patrick Butrym ?- Waukesha-Catholic Memorial ?- TE ?- 6-4 240 ?- Wisconsin SE REG
Chris Hagerup -- Whitefish Bay -- P/QB -- 6-4 205 -- SE REG
Ben Johnson ?- Shoreland Lutheran -? LB ?- 6-3 200 -- Northern Illinois SE REG
Louis Nzegwu ?- Platteville ?- DE ?- 6-3 224 -- Wisconsin SW REG
Josh Oglesby ?- St. Francis ?- OT ?- 6-8 315 ?- Wisconsin SE REG
Jake Olson ?- Hartford ?- OT ?- 6-8 220 -- Central Michigan SC REG
Nick Toon ?- Middleton ?- WR ?- 6-2 185 -- Wisconsin SW REG
J.J. Watt ?- Pewaukee ?- TE/DE -- 6-5 225 -- Minnesota SE REG
Scott Wedige ?- Elkhorn ?- OL ?- 6-4 275 -- Northern Illinois SC REG
Andrew Yuds -- Kettle Moraine ?- OL ?- 6-5 265 -- Western Michigan SE REG

Players with D-1A offers?

John Clay ?- Racine Park ?- RB ?- 6-1 222 ?- SE REG (major)
Victor Reynolds ?- Grace Prep ?- DB ?- 6-0 195 -- SE REG (major)
Jacob Juedes -- Sheboygan Falls -- S/QB -- 6-2 188 -- NE REG (Army)

D-1 CONFERENCE BREAKDOWN

Big Ten ? 6 50%
MAC ? 6 50%

WFCA REGION BREAKDOWN

Northwest Region - 0 (0%)
North Central Region - 0 (0%)
West Central Region - 0 (0%)
North East Region ? 0 (0%)
South West Region ? 2 (17%)
South Central Region - 2 (17%)
South East Region ? 8 (67%)

POSITION BREAKDOWN

LINE ? 5 42%
LB ? 2 17%
DB ? 0 0%
WR ? 1 8%
RB ? 0 0%
QB ? 0 0%
K/P ? 0 0%
TE ? 2 17%
DE ? 1 8%
P - 1 8%
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wcbsas
Quote:
ORIGINAL: bucky_fan
I completely disagree with you, T.


I agree AND disagree a little bit with you bucky_fan. I'll support my position with a couple of examples.

We fans, parents and players, all get caught up in the stats a little bit too much. A really good college program, and a really good college coach can indentify major college talent rather quickly and without all the fanfare (stats) we often site.

I agree that a lot of canvasing is done by grad assistants, assistants and coaches. They know with a degree of certainty who are capable players and who are not but ... there are a lot of kids who sneak through the cracks. WHY?

1) Most D1 college offer 20-22 scholarships per year.
2) Almost 1/2 or more of those are offered and accepted before the high school football year even begins.
3) Many of the offers are extended based on performance junior year as well as and especially the summer camps athletes attend.

What about a kid who had a poor junior year?
What about a kid who did not attend their summer camp?

Coaches all talk to each other.
Every coach at North Dakota knows who South Dakota is recruiting (and vice-versa).
Every coach at Minnesota knows who Wisconsin is recruiting (and vice-versa).

But ... what about someone who has a breakout year his senior year? Or was injured his junior year? Or didn't attend Wisconsin's summer camp?

Robert Evans at D2 Franklin probably qualifies as the perfect example. Schools like Wisconsin, Minnesota and Colorado are just now coming onto him because (1) he was off their radar -and- (2) his high school coaches have done an extremely poor job promoting him!

There are very few kids like him that are "off-the-radar" but were it not for his outstanding state tournament performance very few schools may have known who he was. Do college coaches know about EVERY D1 potential kid? No. Do they know about 90+% of them? Yes.
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pinetar
i agree and disagree to a point as well...

i think alot of kids get overlooked because wisconsin isnt full of huge teams...MOST D1 teams end up being generally grouped in the southeast corner of the state, south central by madison, and then a few more in the sheboygan area...a kid that plays for a D7 school who has a ton of talent and could play at the next level will get overlooked alot easier then a D1 kid because of the competition level they gauge them against...i know some coaches dont stick the time into sending out a film on a player, or even a game tape which is also a reason for the low recruiting numbers...i just find it hard to believe that out of our whole state, only 15-20 kids have D1 talent...i would venture to say there are around 30 - 40 kids in our state that could make it at the next level...stars...not exactly...solid players...no doubt
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bucky_fan_old
I understand what you're saying, wcb, but I think it at least partially confirms what I'm saying. Take, for example, the Robert Evans, the Franklin QB you mention. All of a sudden, he's "on the radar" based on his excellent performance this year. He's had lots of comments on boards like this, good press from the pappers and good recognition. (You could say the same thing about the Waukesha QB, MAtt Haass, Brent Goska, etc.)

I'd argue, though, that far more important to colleges are his "measurables," not his stats and W-L record. Evans is listed at 6"1", 165. I can't find a 40 time on him, but at that size, unless he's running in the 4.4s, he probably isn't going to get a lot of QB looks from big programs. If he is running that fast, they'd probably want to make him into a DBack. In other words, he just isn't the right model for most D1 programs, right off the bat. That doesn't mean he isn't good, because he clearly is. It also doesn't mean that colleges are overlooking him, just that he doesn't fit the bill. It also doesn't mean that he can't play at a non-D1 level or walk on and prove himself at a D1 school. Maybe he can. I guarantee, however, that most colleges in the midwest know who he is.

Right now, only one WI QB has a scholarship offer (which is pathetic, but that's a whole different topic, and the reality). Chris Hagerup from Whitefish Bay just signed with Indiana, as a punter (short-term) and a QB (more of a project, it seems like). According to the Milwaukee Journal, his team wasn't great, not even qualifying for the playoffs. His stats are OK, but certainly not off the charts, nothing to grab a college's interest. He was only HM All-Conference as a QB. Evans' stats are much better and more impressive.

But Hagerup is listed at 6"5, 200+ lbs., he's run a 4.6 40, and according to most of the scouting services, he has a cannon arm. So, he gets college interest and the scholarship. It doesn't mean that he was noticed and Evans wasn't. It just means that he fits the mold and Evans doesn't (so far, at least).

Interesting subject, isn't it?
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fubarbucky_old
You guys are killing me. 30 to 40 D-1 HS football players in Wisconsin. NO WAY! There are not 30 to 40 guys that hit the metrics every year. If there were 30 to 40 D-1 guys in Wis. the Badgers would be a BCS team every year.
Do guys slip through the cracks? Yes. Do some guys make it beacuse of political reasons and others not? Yes. However the hard fact is if you have talent they will find you and if you don't have the necessary skill they won't look for you. This is a hard reality to face.
D-1 players have a D-1 skill set, D-2 have a lower skill set and D-3 even lower. If a D-3 player makes it to the pros he is the exception not the rule.
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pinetar
so explain to me if D1 level players have a higher skill set...and D2 is a little lower, and D3 even lower, why alot of D1 transfers come right to D3 schools, and many D3 athletes pass up D2 scholarship offers to play for a D3 program?

30-40 D1 athletes FOR THE BADGERS is one thing...but do you think CENTRAL FLORIDA or SAN DIEGO STATE recruits heavily in wisconsin and takes a hard look at the players in wisconsin as hard as they would their own state...no...so they could be just as good if not better, but they feel they will stick with in state players...

40 guys is alot...30 isnt that far of a stretch...wisconsin only has 15 D1 recruits this year...and thats a low number...theres usually somewhere from 15-25...
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pinetar
being from the south east / south central part of the state, this just goes to show how much media attention the south gets compared to the north...i know theres some great teams and great players in the south dont get me wrong...but i know there are some really talented players in the central/northern part of the state...i think alot of this talent gets overlooked for D1 scholarships/walk-ons...i think this is why our D3 college programs thrive
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bucky_fan_old
I completely disagree with you, T.

I recently had a long conversation with an assistant coach at a big time college program, who was adament that very few kids slip through the cracks. Here's how he explained it. His school, which isn't even in WI, sends film requests to virtually every WI high school, asking the coach for team film and information on players that might be capable of, and might have an interest in, playing college FB.

A graduate assistant or the assistant coach geographically responsible for recruiting WI watches EVERY film that comes in, focusing on the players highlighted by the high school coach. From those viewings, the GA/Assistant Coach forwards edited film of all promising players to the assistant coach who coaches that position. Assuming the player is good enough and that they are recruiting that position that year, that player is then entered into their data base and "recruited", by sending letters, asking for more film, offering school visists, etc.

He indicated that they might have 500 or so WI players in that group. Obviously, those numbers get whittled down substantially over time, and it may end up being (and is likely) that no WI kids end up as serious recruits for that school. After all, as someone just pointed out, only 15 seniors in the entire state have D1 offers this year, and half of those are mid-major level.

The gist of the conversation was that they are very confident that kids do not go unnoticed if they are good enough. Once in a while, you'll see a D3 kid make it to the NFL, and there are always lots of players drafted out of second tier schools. That usually means they improved/matured tremendously in college, not that they were overlooked in high school.
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fubarbucky_old
Why do D-1 players transfer to D-3 schools rather than go to D-2 schools?
A. Its an easier transfer with the oppertunity to play right away.

Why do some D-3 player pick a D-3 school even after being offered a D-2 scholarship.?
A. Not all D-2 scholarships are what they are cracked up to be. The option of living out of state does not appeal to everyone. I could go on, sufficient to say there are a million of reasons.

UCF or SDSU don't have the inclination or the budget to look at some kid in Wisconsin. I will agree with you (even though didn't state it) that if Wisconsin had another D-1 school there would be more D-1 scholarships offered in state.

If you can play they will find you. Diet Cokes number of 17.5 is dead on. Half of those 17.5 guys end up in the MAC which is a step under the Big 10 on average. The question is not why more guys are not given D-1 scholarships but what can be done to make those players D-1 quality athletes. Believe me everyone would love to see more Wisconsin kids get D-1 rides. It would take a concerted effort from a lot of different sources for that to happen.
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nuclearmeltdown
This is a very interesting topic

Alot of what college coaches look for is frame..or something to build off

my cousin was probly 6'5'' 215 his sr yr and lots of D1 schools looked at him and wanted him to play TE and now hes 6'5'' 250 so that has a lot to do with it....An example right now is eric brunner...he has the talent but colleges tend to think that he is to small to play D1

I also agree with some people....some college kids would be more interested playing D3 ball more than D2 because they may want a better education and more playing time

So idk i agree with a lot of this and also disagree with some

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bucky_fan_old
"theres usually somewhere from 15-25"

I'm sure Diet or Marlin can tell us for sure, but I think WI has averaged under 20 D1 scholarships for the past several years, so I don't think this year is unusual, except for the fact that we have two of the top guys in the whole country in Oglesby and Clay.
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dietcoke1
I do. I have some old posts where I arrived at an average but I made a few updates and adjustments (on my home computer) since then so I really should recalculate them. I can't edit the post for some reason. However, the average is going to be essentially the same.

It is about 17.5 D-1 recruits per year if you do not count service academy appointments. The numbers have actually been surprisingly stable over time. There have been some ebbs and flows and peaks and valleys - but it evens out.

[link=http://www.wissports.net/playground/tm.asp?m=298662]http://www.wissports.net/playground/tm.asp?m=298662[/link]

Some schools seem to get on a roll producing recruits. This is another factoid I have on my other computer - maybe I'll save it and post it later - but Oconomowoc, Madison Memorial and Grafton each produced 11-12 recruits during the '80s. Oconomowoc has had a few more since that time and so has Memorial - but Grafton has just been shut down since Kip Kramer (master of the package deal) has left. I think it will be interesting to see what schools will be productive in the post-Joe Koch era. Maybe Wisconsin Lutheran????
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