nospotshooters Show full post »
dawgstyle
kenny78 wrote:
I have said it before and I will say it again. In high school basketball it is not usually obvious which team is better until those teams play. Rankings are mostly worthless, and comparisons of strengths of schedules from different areas of the state is impossible to evaluate. You might think that one team is better than another because the hype surrounding a player or two but until those teams actually face off on the court there is no certainty. I think seeding at the tournament is the best thing that they can do. Besides, the goal is not to get the best 4 teams to state. It is to get representation from the entire state at the tournament.


I've also said this multiple times.  Good luck trying to seed a bunch of teams that have no common opponents.  The degrees of separation for some teams can be as many as 3 or 4.  So assuming that all the good teams are in one area because you have no exposure to the rest of the state is a dangerous assumption.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
Quote 0 0
teddykgb
I believe that not every team should make the tournament. Each division should  have 64 teams with 4 regions seeded 1-16. You can have a conference tournament to determine the automatic bid from your league. The selection committee for each division could be made up of administrators from other divisions (an AD from a D3 school could be on the D2 committee). Obviously modeled after the NCAA tournament. Would make for a lot of great basketball right from the first game.
Quote 0 0
dawgstyle
teddykgb wrote:
I believe that not every team should make the tournament. Each division should  have 64 teams with 4 regions seeded 1-16. You can have a conference tournament to determine the automatic bid from your league. The selection committee for each division could be made up of administrators from other divisions (an AD from a D3 school could be on the D2 committee). Obviously modeled after the NCAA tournament. Would make for a lot of great basketball right from the first game.


Some conferences have teams in more than 1 division.  This was be even more ridiculous than seeding the entire state.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
Quote 0 0
teddykgb
That's fine if a conference has teams in more than one division. A D3 team that is 7-7 in a mostly D2 conference would have a strong strength of schedule argument to get an at large bid. I think it would be a neat idea. Obviously not going to happen though!
Quote 0 0
dawgstyle
teddykgb wrote:
That's fine if a conference has teams in more than one division. A D3 team that is 7-7 in a mostly D2 conference would have a strong strength of schedule argument to get an at large bid. I think it would be a neat idea. Obviously not going to happen though!


How are you going to determine strength of schedule whens tons teams have 0 common opponents?  How many teams do you have to jump to get from Black Hawk to South Shore?  Now you want to pick who does and doesnt make the tournament with that complete lack of information?
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
Quote 0 0
nospotshooters
dawgstyle wrote:


How are you going to determine strength of schedule whens tons teams have 0 common opponents?  How many teams do you have to jump to get from Black Hawk to South Shore?  Now you want to pick who does and doesnt make the tournament with that complete lack of information?

In the era prior to consolidation, there were too many schools/teams for the bracket. Not every team qualified for the playoffs. Selection Committees from around the state would determine who did not qualify and who had to play "play-in" games in their local district/regional. Teams were then unofficially seeded in some areas as well. What did they base all of these decisions on? Strength of record, simple w-l record, and of course, potential gate revenue.

Re-seeding today might be annoying logistically, but not that difficult.
Quote 0 0
dawgstyle

In the era prior to consolidation, there were too many schools/teams for the bracket. Not every team qualified for the playoffs. Selection Committees from around the state would determine who did not qualify and who had to play "play-in" games in their local district/regional. Teams were then unofficially seeded in some areas as well. What did they base all of these decisions on? Strength of record, simple w-l record, and of course, potential gate revenue.

Re-seeding today might be annoying logistically, but not that difficult.


You are insinuating that because they did it, they did a good job and therefore should and can be done.  People did stupid things for a long time before someone came along and pointed out that their idea is flawed.  That's often why people stop doing things.

A conference can easily have 4 teams better than another conferences best team.  The idea that you might leave out one of those teams and put in a bad team because they happen to play in an inferior region at the time is just plain dumb.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
Quote 0 0
nospotshooters
dawgstyle wrote:


You are insinuating that because they did it, they did a good job and therefore should and can be done.  People did stupid things for a long time before someone came along and pointed out that their idea is flawed.  That's often why people stop doing things.

A conference can easily have 4 teams better than another conferences best team.  The idea that you might leave out one of those teams and put in a bad team because they happen to play in an inferior region at the time is just plain dumb.


The process right now puts zero emphasis on anything other than geography. When they re-seed for state, as you have said, some teams have zero common opponents. Yet they still use some basic metrics to determine Team 1 is better than Team 4. Is it always accurate? No. But It is better than having pre-determined match-ups, and a much higher chance of St. Cats v Westby State Championship games.
Quote 0 0
dawgstyle


The process right now puts zero emphasis on anything other than geography. When they re-seed for state, as you have said, some teams have zero common opponents. Yet they still use some basic metrics to determine Team 1 is better than Team 4. Is it always accurate? No. But It is better than having pre-determined match-ups, and a much higher chance of St. Cats v Westby State Championship games.


When there are 4 teams left, there are 3 possible match up combinations.  If you go to 64 teams in each division, you are talking about cutting hundreds of schools.  These are not equivalents.  One scenario means a school might have a tough match up, the other means a school just might get left out.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
Quote 0 0
blade12
db11 wrote:


WOW


I had a different response crafted but deleted it.  Not a fan of blaming refs for much of anything.

Look for the clip of the Wisconsin Herd coach blasting refs after a game where they blew a 21 point lead yesterday. 
Quote 0 0
blade12
teddykgb wrote:
I believe that not every team should make the tournament. Each division should  have 64 teams with 4 regions seeded 1-16. You can have a conference tournament to determine the automatic bid from your league. The selection committee for each division could be made up of administrators from other divisions (an AD from a D3 school could be on the D2 committee). Obviously modeled after the NCAA tournament. Would make for a lot of great basketball right from the first game.


In a sport like BB it's super easy to include all. It just takes 1 more night, the gyms are available, half the schools get to host at least 1 game and you give a glimmer of hope at some fantastical run by a 3-19 team. The path of least resistance is to include all and it's the right call.
Quote 1 0
wissportsnet

Boys Basketball Alumni Round-up: February 21st, from @ColtonWilson23 #wisbb -- https://t.co/0K6CZzZWpf https://t.co/715tfpBGVS

wissportsnet

WSN15: Boys Basketball Top Teams #12 -- Two NCAA Division I players at one WIAA Division 4 school = state champions… https://t.co/1MThqzce9L

wissportsnet

Predicting winners of every state wrestling title plus a look By The Numbers, from @Nate_Woelfel -… https://t.co/HgU1bLP7d6

wissportsnet

Join the free Boys Basketball Playoff Pick 'Em Contest; Staff picks coming Tuesday #wisbb -- https://t.co/Y6yTA3OgP8 https://t.co/hA6Uyw9uje