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db11
wiscopetty wrote:
db11 wrote:
Well then, TCU probably shouldn't have barely beat one of the worst teams in D1 if they wanted a playoff shot. That was a death blow to their chances after the Baylor loss.

You could make this argument for most of the playoff teams though. Ohio State lost to freaking Virginia Tech and barely scraped by Penn State and Minnesota. I don't think I even need to dive into the numerous close calls Florida State had. Oregon probably had the most convincing regular season resume, followed by Alabama. Unless you're 1995 Nebraska or 2001 Miami and are just wrecking people, even the best teams are going to have a few warts on their schedule each year.

The biggest hurdle for any Big 12 team to make the playoff was the lack of a conference championship game. TCU and Baylor can complain all they want, but it was their own undoing.


Perception is everything though.

The Big 12 garners little respect nationally. People rip the Big 10 and ACC, but they're not the joke the Big 12 has become. TCU "should have losing" to an awful Kansas team stings national perception more than FSU escaping Clemson or GA Tech. "Big 12 defense" is a universal punchline for Pete's sake (see Baylor/TCU game). Doesn't help that Oklahoma and Texas can barely tie their own shoes anymore as the supposed conference flag-bearers. And, of course, the lack of a conference title game.

Ohio State's loss came early in the year when the sting of losing Braxton Miller was still resonating. For as good as Barrett played going forward, don't think that wasn't taken into account. An 8-TD margin of victory in the B1G title game didn't hurt either. Also, they're OSU. Power program. Benefit of doubt.

With FSU, it all comes down to them being defending champs. How do you explain not having the undefeated defending champs in the playoff field? That was a road they didn't wanna go down, and the committee placing them third spoke to that...saying in effect, we know they're probably paper tigers, but how can we justify not including them? It exposed a big flaw with a four-team system.
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bhsblackhawks
wr88 wrote:
So good to see the SEC West get owned by such "horrible" opponents.

Only wins from the West are Texas A&M and Arkansas against a bad Texas team and inconsistent West Virginia.... Getting beat by Wisconsin, Notre Dame, TCU (Who should have been in the playoff), Georgia Tech, Ohio State. Pathetic for the best Division in college football....

What excuse will they give Bama for getting rocked two years in a row at the Sugar Bowl? I mean, when Oklahoma killed them it was because "They weren't playing for a title so the game didn't matter." What now?

Instead of which team that did make it? FSU is the only team I would say is worse than TCU (and I would have said that before the bowl games), but it's tough to remove an undefeated team.
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dawgstyle
db11 wrote:
wiscopetty wrote:
db11 wrote:
Well then, TCU probably shouldn't have barely beat one of the worst teams in D1 if they wanted a playoff shot. That was a death blow to their chances after the Baylor loss.

You could make this argument for most of the playoff teams though. Ohio State lost to freaking Virginia Tech and barely scraped by Penn State and Minnesota. I don't think I even need to dive into the numerous close calls Florida State had. Oregon probably had the most convincing regular season resume, followed by Alabama. Unless you're 1995 Nebraska or 2001 Miami and are just wrecking people, even the best teams are going to have a few warts on their schedule each year.

The biggest hurdle for any Big 12 team to make the playoff was the lack of a conference championship game. TCU and Baylor can complain all they want, but it was their own undoing.


Perception is everything though.

The Big 12 garners little respect nationally. People rip the Big 10 and ACC, but they're not the joke the Big 12 has become. TCU "should have losing" to an awful Kansas team stings national perception more than FSU escaping Clemson or GA Tech. "Big 12 defense" is a universal punchline for Pete's sake (see Baylor/TCU game). Doesn't help that Oklahoma and Texas can barely tie their own shoes anymore as the supposed conference flag-bearers. And, of course, the lack of a conference title game.

Ohio State's loss came early in the year when the sting of losing Braxton Miller was still resonating. For as good as Barrett played going forward, don't think that wasn't taken into account. An 8-TD margin of victory in the B1G title game didn't hurt either. Also, they're OSU. Power program. Benefit of doubt.

With FSU, it all comes down to them being defending champs. How do you explain not having the undefeated defending champs in the playoff field? That was a road they didn't wanna go down, and the committee placing them third spoke to that...saying in effect, we know they're probably paper tigers, but how can we justify not including them? It exposed a big flaw with a four-team system.


Thats probably overstating, no nevermind, its beyond overstating. Last year the Big 12 put 2 teams in the BCS. OK beat Alabama in its back yard, KSU stomped Michigan and Texas Tech stomped ASU. They went 3-3 in their bowl games. Up until yesterday no one from outside the Big 10 was putting them ahead of the Big 12.
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thebillwaltontrip
No, TCU should not have been in the playoffs over any of the four teams that were selected.

The Big 12 has no system in place to determine a best team in the conference when scenarios such as the one we saw this past season unfold.

Furthermore, the Big 12 hasn't done anything this bowl season to justify the strength of their conference or that TCU deserved a nod over any of those four teams. Texas and Oklahoma got absolutely dominated and Baylor choked away a 3 touchdown lead in the fourth quarter to a team not really known for its explosive offensive prowess. Their conference's lone bowl win thus far has come from TCU at the expense of a Mississippi team that was slumping hard at the end of the season, losing 3 of its last 5 games including a 30-0 romp at the hands of a .500 opponent.
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wr88
dawgstyle wrote:
Thats probably overstating, no nevermind, its beyond overstating. Last year the Big 12 put 2 teams in the BCS. OK beat Alabama in its back yard, KSU stomped Michigan and Texas Tech stomped ASU. They went 3-3 in their bowl games. Up until yesterday no one from outside the Big 10 was putting them ahead of the Big 12.


Pretty funny how people forget those facts.
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dfnewburry
thebillwaltontrip wrote:
No, TCU should not have been in the playoffs over any of the four teams that were selected.

The Big 12 has no system in place to determine a best team in the conference when scenarios such as the one we saw this past season unfold.

Furthermore, the Big 12 hasn't done anything this bowl season to justify the strength of their conference or that TCU deserved a nod over any of those four teams. Texas and Oklahoma got absolutely dominated and Baylor choked away a 3 touchdown lead in the fourth quarter to a team not really known for its explosive offensive prowess. Their conference's lone bowl win thus far has come from TCU at the expense of a Mississippi team that was slumping hard at the end of the season, losing 3 of its last 5 games including a 30-0 romp at the hands of a .500 opponent.



Exactly .

I agree with Urban Meyer where those teams in the playoffs should only be unbeaten conference champions otherwise the regular season means nothing and he would vote against allowing the non champions .








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db11
wr88 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
Thats probably overstating, no nevermind, its beyond overstating. Last year the Big 12 put 2 teams in the BCS. OK beat Alabama in its back yard, KSU stomped Michigan and Texas Tech stomped ASU. They went 3-3 in their bowl games. Up until yesterday no one from outside the Big 10 was putting them ahead of the Big 12.


Pretty funny how people forget those facts.


Still doesn't change the perception. This ain't 2001 anymore.
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dawgstyle
db11 wrote:
wr88 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
Thats probably overstating, no nevermind, its beyond overstating. Last year the Big 12 put 2 teams in the BCS. OK beat Alabama in its back yard, KSU stomped Michigan and Texas Tech stomped ASU. They went 3-3 in their bowl games. Up until yesterday no one from outside the Big 10 was putting them ahead of the Big 12.


Pretty funny how people forget those facts.


Still doesn't change the perception. This ain't 2001 anymore.


Last I checked the perception amongst the national media is the Big 10 is the worst of the power 5 conferences.

It doesn't have to be 2001 anymore, last year the Big 12 was perceived to be 2nd or 3rd.
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db11
dawgstyle wrote:
db11 wrote:
wr88 wrote:
dawgstyle wrote:
Thats probably overstating, no nevermind, its beyond overstating. Last year the Big 12 put 2 teams in the BCS. OK beat Alabama in its back yard, KSU stomped Michigan and Texas Tech stomped ASU. They went 3-3 in their bowl games. Up until yesterday no one from outside the Big 10 was putting them ahead of the Big 12.


Pretty funny how people forget those facts.


Still doesn't change the perception. This ain't 2001 anymore.


Last I checked the perception amongst the national media is the Big 10 is the worst of the power 5 conferences.

It doesn't have to be 2001 anymore, last year the Big 12 was perceived to be 2nd or 3rd.


The Big 12 is only perceived to be good though if OU is contending, once they're not, it is immediately poo-pooed (see: this year). And currently the perception of the Big 10 is basically based on Ohio State. They're real good this year, so the rest of the conference bumps up a bit.

Like it or not, even with a playoff, there is still very much a glass ceiling for all but 15-20 programs in FCS. And that glass ceiling exists mostly because of perception. Whether it's mid-majors or the bottom 2/3rds of any major conference that isn't the SEC.

The Big 12 suffers from defections of top schools (that shouldn't be happening to a supposed "power conference") which have led to no conference title game plus there's been a noticeable drop-off in remaining programs minus Baylor (poor man's Oregon) and a newcomer in TCU who is still largely looked at with skeptical Boise'd-over eyes.
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wiscopetty
Rose Bowl, Sugar Bowl break TV records - SB Nation

Are there still people out there who believe a playoff system isn't an immeasurable improvement over the BCS?
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