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escards_old
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ORIGINAL: JChoopin

It appears some people only judge a coach by wins and losses. Quite a sad state of affairs. I already told you how I classify great coaches in my earlier post. If you disagree, thats your opinion.

Escards, if you like to call me out and attack me, and thats all fine and well, but i'd much rather hear a response to my points, since that is what makes the conversation interesting. So let me pose the questions to you (or anyone) again. I'd like to hear your response.

1) You don't think Diener should be embarassed by having his kids stall in a game where they were the more athletic team?

2) The only way to determine the best coach is on how many state titles they have won?

3) The game of basketball is meant to be played by having 9 players stand around and watch one player hold the ball?

4) You disagree with my point that it would be a tough sell to my players that I asked them to work hard for me every day, but when we got to the fianl game of our season I told them to stall during the first half of a close game?



1. Diener should not be embarrassed of anything, it's not like he assaulted someone one. he made a strategic move, no coach should be embarrassed of that. The reason he went to the 4 corners is because his team was more athletic, but not more fundamental. The zone was killing his team, they couldn't shoot from the outside. So he made a STRATEGIC move to draw them out of the zone. It backfired, end of story. There is nothing to be embarrased about.

2. I think how many state titles a coach has won is a good place to start. These men have proven time and time again that they know how to get a team to win a championship. There are many, many talented teams that don't win a state title, these guys know how to get these teams to a title.

3. Is irrelevant. Diener did it to try and pull West out of the zone. I think it was a great move, you can disagree, but there isn't anything to be embarrassed about.

4. Again, it was a STRATEGIC move. West was in a zone and Vincent wasn't doing anything against it. Make them come out and defend them would have allowed Vincent to attack the rim, but West didn't. They stayed packed in the paint.

You are repeating yourself, now answer my question.

What credentials do you have to tell any coach that they should be embarrassed of how they coached?


PS - It's kind of ironic that you are saying that wins and losses shouldn't count that much when determining how good a coach is, but you are saying that a coach should be EMBARRASSED BY MAKING A A STRATEGIC MOVE.

I hope you don't have kids, I would hate to be that coach.
My negative score is a result of an obsession that sportsfan has with me. Help win this battle of good vs. evil, give me a +2!
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escards_old
This quote by JCHoopin should sum up his attitude, I don't think this person can be reasoned with. Obviously they are just a coach killer.

From the FRV board on the subject of the Green Bay Notre Dame girls team, here's the sensible quote that he responded to:

well considering east, north, and south all have more talent for girls basketball it shouldnt be suprising that notre dame is around .500, thats where the number four team in the conference usually is.

here's JCHoopin's response:

Yeah, it was a pretty embarrassing season. Losing record, and a losing record overall. That should never happen to a private school girls program. Despite a lot of talent, this is as bad of a season as you'll see. My guess is some changes will be in order.

[link=http://www.wissports.net/playground/tm.asp?m=468947&mpage=1&key=&#507016]http://www.wissports.net/playground/tm.asp?m=468947&mpage=1&key=&#507016[/link]

I don't think we need to waste our time with this person anymore, they're just your typical coach killer that thinks they can always do better.
My negative score is a result of an obsession that sportsfan has with me. Help win this battle of good vs. evil, give me a +2!
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Razor6_old
Quote:
ORIGINAL: JChoopin

And now we are trying to differentiate between a stall and a spread? Lets be serious...as I said before, get a shotclock and stop this insanity.


Amen to that. A shotclock could have prevented this whole thread, just for starters.
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escards_old
JC what are your basketball credentials? I think that's important when you come on here and say a coach should be EMBARASSED of a coaching decision he made.

Have you ever coached before? What level? What was your record? Where at?

I've answered your questions, now please answer mine.

And I never said that you couldn't disagree with their coaching strategies, I just said YOU CAN'T TELL THEM THAT THEY SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED ABOUT MAKING A STRATEGIC COACHING DECISION. There's a difference.

Also there is a difference between the spread offense and a stall. If you had any basketball knowledge you would know that.
My negative score is a result of an obsession that sportsfan has with me. Help win this battle of good vs. evil, give me a +2!
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homeruntrotter_old
Quote:
ORIGINAL: Razor6

How many kids enjoy playing the game with a stall tactic? Isn't the enjoyment of the kids something to take into consideration?


Do you think not being competitive and getting blown out every game is enjoyment for the kids? No way should HS ball have a shot clock. If a less athletic team can't slow the pace down they will get blown out of the water by a more athletic team. What fun is that for the kids?????
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escards_old
Quote:
ORIGINAL: homeruntrotter

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Razor6

How many kids enjoy playing the game with a stall tactic? Isn't the enjoyment of the kids something to take into consideration?


Do you think not being competitive and getting blown out every game is enjoyment for the kids? No way should HS ball have a shot clock. If a less athletic team can't slow the pace down they will get blown out of the water by a more athletic team. What fun is that for the kids?????


It's not about the kdis to them, it's about what they think basketball is. There is no room in this discussion for any other point of view.
My negative score is a result of an obsession that sportsfan has with me. Help win this battle of good vs. evil, give me a +2!
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oldhoosier_old
You obviously have no concept of basketball strategy and stating that the coaches have no faith in their players is absolutely ludicrous. There isn't enough space here to explain the basics of coaching strategy, team and coach relationships, and the skill level of these players. If you don't know there is a difference between a complete stall (ie Vincent and King) and spreading the floor to score (Osh West), then you shouldn't comment. As far as Diener and Randall's decisions during the game, even though I personally don't like a stall in the first half, it was each coach's game strategy that was planned and executed. Randall's plan was successful in this case. Congrats West.
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oldhoosier_old
You are correct. Yes, if they didn't try to score, that would be correct - wait for the defense. But in the situation we are discussing, it was the second quarter (first quarter for King), and only a one possession lead. Typically West will pull the ball out in the 4th quarter (I've only seen it in the 3rd quarter once) when they have a more than one possession lead and will attack to score. FVA1980, my comments were directed specifically at JChoopin that is bashing Diener and Randall for not having faith in their players. The strategy of the stall/spread is part of the game until the rules change. Just don't like the uniformed comments of a person who, I would have to assume, is not close to either program.
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