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safetysqueezepleezzee11
yzerman1 wrote:
A couple of takeaways from the article at the top of the thread. The first is that Tom Haudricourt is a horrible baseball writer. Every article I read from him makes me think that he is just a shill for the Brewers. Just one excuse after another for the current state of the Brewers. The first thing the Brewers need to do is recognize that they are a small market baseball team. You can't compete with the Cubs and Cardinals when it comes to money. Those two teams are always going to be able to outspend you when it comes to going after certain players.
in
The seeing the team as an 82 win team doesn't really bother me. At least they are being honest with themselves. Get hot at the end of August and September and maybe you can luck into a wild card spot. To me though that way of thinking is a team that is stuck in the middle. Not good enough to win the division and until this year not bad enough to completely bottom out. Atlanta saw themselves in the same position as the Brewers are broke up their team this off season.

The Brewers need to realize they are a small market club. That message needs to go out to the fans as well. Way to many people want to live the Yankee lifestyle on a shoe string budget. The Brewers need to be a draft and develop team. They need to stop over valuing their own talent. I always hear from them when talking about developing pitchers, "We have three home grown guys in our rotation." Not one of the Brewers starters would make the Cardinals rotation and that is without Wainwright. All the major publications rate the Brewers minor league system as one of the 5 worst in all of baseball. I only see two major league players in their system above Low A, Orlando Arcia and Michael Reed. That is why Lucroy needs to be traded hopefully soon but no later than this off season. I cannot see this team being good enough to compete in the next two years. They don't have any pitcher in the minors or majors that is any better than a 4/5 type. That is going to be a major problem because pitching is so hard to come by and no one is going to give up anyone who has the potential to be that #1 type starter. Also trade Peralta, who is arbitration eligible next year, and Nelson should definitely be on the trade block. The Brewers problems are not going to be fixed overnight.

Lastly being a small market team doesn't mean you can't win. Tampa, Pittsburgh, and Kansas City are all doing great this year. Oakland has been very good the past few years. They all have a philosophy that works for them and stick to their plan. The Brewers are all over the map on how they operate. There is no quick fix to get them out of the hole they are in right now.



Trade the only guys on the team with promise/talent? - Lucroy, Nelson and Peralta. They aren't going to bring back that
much. Your analysis is as asinine as that of Haudricourt. I suspect you are advocating trading them so they
don't have to pay them higher salaries. That might make sense IF the Brewers didn't continually go out and overpay old and mediocre starting pitchers. How would you fill those 2 pitching spots??
That would make sense IF they were going to really get something back for any
them. All of them have at least 5 years of solid ball ahead of them(and probably more). To give up on Nelson and Peralta is simply stupid. Both have the ability to develop into solid(or better) starting pitchers. Yeah, give up on them
now! Lucroy also has NO decent replacement in the Brewer system, unless you think Moldanado is decent. I don't.
I would keep Lucroy forever and keep Peralta and Nelson at least till there are due for new contracts. If they want to
keep them then, either give them contracts or go to arbitration. I don't think either is going to draw a $10Million per
year offer.
Quote 0 0
blade12
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
yzerman1 wrote:
A couple of takeaways from the article at the top of the thread. The first is that Tom Haudricourt is a horrible baseball writer. Every article I read from him makes me think that he is just a shill for the Brewers. Just one excuse after another for the current state of the Brewers. The first thing the Brewers need to do is recognize that they are a small market baseball team. You can't compete with the Cubs and Cardinals when it comes to money. Those two teams are always going to be able to outspend you when it comes to going after certain players.
in
The seeing the team as an 82 win team doesn't really bother me. At least they are being honest with themselves. Get hot at the end of August and September and maybe you can luck into a wild card spot. To me though that way of thinking is a team that is stuck in the middle. Not good enough to win the division and until this year not bad enough to completely bottom out. Atlanta saw themselves in the same position as the Brewers are broke up their team this off season.

The Brewers need to realize they are a small market club. That message needs to go out to the fans as well. Way to many people want to live the Yankee lifestyle on a shoe string budget. The Brewers need to be a draft and develop team. They need to stop over valuing their own talent. I always hear from them when talking about developing pitchers, "We have three home grown guys in our rotation." Not one of the Brewers starters would make the Cardinals rotation and that is without Wainwright. All the major publications rate the Brewers minor league system as one of the 5 worst in all of baseball. I only see two major league players in their system above Low A, Orlando Arcia and Michael Reed. That is why Lucroy needs to be traded hopefully soon but no later than this off season. I cannot see this team being good enough to compete in the next two years. They don't have any pitcher in the minors or majors that is any better than a 4/5 type. That is going to be a major problem because pitching is so hard to come by and no one is going to give up anyone who has the potential to be that #1 type starter. Also trade Peralta, who is arbitration eligible next year, and Nelson should definitely be on the trade block. The Brewers problems are not going to be fixed overnight.

Lastly being a small market team doesn't mean you can't win. Tampa, Pittsburgh, and Kansas City are all doing great this year. Oakland has been very good the past few years. They all have a philosophy that works for them and stick to their plan. The Brewers are all over the map on how they operate. There is no quick fix to get them out of the hole they are in right now.



Trade the only guys on the team with promise/talent? - Lucroy, Nelson and Peralta. They aren't going to bring back that
much. Your analysis is as asinine as that of Haudricourt. I suspect you are advocating trading them so they
don't have to pay them higher salaries. That might make sense IF the Brewers didn't continually go out and overpay old and mediocre starting pitchers. How would you fill those 2 pitching spots??
That would make sense IF they were going to really get something back for any
them. All of them have at least 5 years of solid ball ahead of them(and probably more). To give up on Nelson and Peralta is simply stupid. Both have the ability to develop into solid(or better) starting pitchers. Yeah, give up on them
now! Lucroy also has NO decent replacement in the Brewer system, unless you think Moldanado is decent. I don't.
I would keep Lucroy forever and keep Peralta and Nelson at least till there are due for new contracts. If they want to
keep them then, either give them contracts or go to arbitration. I don't think either is going to draw a $10Million per
year offer.


When he hits FA you won't keep him anyway. Does he want to stay and play for a team that can't win or make more money and play for a team that will compete?
Quote 0 0
yzerman1
You have to assess the other teams in your division. The Cardinals, Cubs, and Pirates aren't going away and they have deep minor league systems with major league caliber prospects in them. I live in Appleton and go to 15-20 Timber Rattler games a year so I consider myself a pretty good authority in the Brewers minor league system. Orlando Arcia and Michael Reed are the only two guys who I would consider to be major leaguers in their system. Tyrone Taylor is a maybe, but that is all they have. After this year Aramis Ramirez is gone. After the 2016 season Carlos Gomez and Adam Lind are gone. There are no real replacements to these guys.

The Brewers are a small market team. Lucroy is the second best catcher in baseball right now, but after the 2017 season he is going to be at least a 20 million a year player. The Brewers cannot afford him and Braun and still put a respectable team on the field. He needs to be moved now to maximize his return. I just don't see a ceiling higher than 4/5 for any pitcher in the Brewers system right now. Guys like that are not untradeable. The Brewers are unfortunately a long way away from being a serious playoff contender. It will be even longer if they don't trade away some of the actual assets they have right now.
If you want to drink all day, you have to start in the morning.
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yzerman1
Buster Olney had this to say about the Brewers the other day:

?The one thing about the Brewers that you hear is that, yes, they?re wiling to talk to teams?I think the way that you and I would do things if we were running a strat-o-matic teams is we would say ?we?ll listen on all our guys, give us your best offer on all our guys.? Where on their end it?s sorta like ?well, we?ll talk about that guy, but nah, you know.? Other teams are getting some of that. So that, yeah, you can talk about their lesser guys, but if I?m in their shoes you got Carlos Gomez who?s under contract through 2016, I mean, my goodness you could put him out there. Tell me a team like the Mets right now you couldn?t theoretically come up with some sort of a match and is that a guy they could desperately use right now. Uh, absolutely.?

?Also you mention Francisco Rodriguez, the one thing I?ve heard from several teams is, in this post Ray Rice era, they?re scared away by the history of domestic violence.?
If you want to drink all day, you have to start in the morning.
Quote 0 0
formerwiacbaseballer
The Brewers finish the month of June 14-14, their first .500 record for a month since June 2014.
"Let's Play Two!!!"

Baseball is not a game that builds character, it is a game that reveals it.

"There are three types of baseball players: those who make things happen, those who watch it happen, and those who wonder what happened."
Quote 0 0
yzerman1
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
The Brewers finish the month of June 14-14, their first .500 record for a month since June 2014.



In the last year since July 1, 2014 here are the following records:

St. Louis 97-58
Pittsburgh 89-67
Chicago 78-78
Milwaukee 62-95

If that doesn't tell you major changes are needed then nothing will.
If you want to drink all day, you have to start in the morning.
Quote 0 0
bp11
yzerman1 wrote:
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
The Brewers finish the month of June 14-14, their first .500 record for a month since June 2014.



In the last year since July 1, 2014 here are the following records:

St. Louis 97-58
Pittsburgh 89-67
Chicago 78-78
Milwaukee 62-95

If that doesn't tell you major changes are needed then nothing will.



But when has safetysqueeze ever let facts get in the way of his opinions?
Meatwad: It's like the Thunderdome in here. Only... Two men enter, no man leaves. Starring Mel Gibson... and Master Blaster.

"Where I'm from snitches get stitches." - Delonte West
Quote 0 0
diener34
formerwiacbaseballer wrote:
The Brewers finish the month of June 14-14, their first .500 record for a month since June 2014.


Ha, things are looking up!

Now, who wants Arcia? We're officially buyers.
Quote 0 0
safetysqueezepleezzee11
yzerman1 wrote:
You have to assess the other teams in your division. The Cardinals, Cubs, and Pirates aren't going away and they have deep minor league systems with major league caliber prospects in them. I live in Appleton and go to 15-20 Timber Rattler games a year so I consider myself a pretty good authority in the Brewers minor league system. Orlando Arcia and Michael Reed are the only two guys who I would consider to be major leaguers in their system. Tyrone Taylor is a maybe, but that is all they have. After this year Aramis Ramirez is gone. After the 2016 season Carlos Gomez and Adam Lind are gone. There are no real replacements to these guys.

The Brewers are a small market team. Lucroy is the second best catcher in baseball right now, but after the 2017 season he is going to be at least a 20 million a year player. The Brewers cannot afford him and Braun and still put a respectable team on the field. He needs to be moved now to maximize his return. I just don't see a ceiling higher than 4/5 for any pitcher in the Brewers system right now. Guys like that are not untradeable. The Brewers are unfortunately a long way away from being a serious playoff contender. It will be even longer if they don't trade away some of the actual assets they have right now.


Lucroy the 2nd best catcher in baseball?
You apparently don't watch much baseball.
He certainly is good and 'perhaps' in the top 5, but hardly the 2nd best in all of baseball.
If you are simply basing things on 2014, I could see your point but one year doesn't make a
guy the 2nd best in baseball. You have Lucroy for 2 more years. He can help the younger pitchers: Jungman,
Peralta and Nelson plus perhaps Clavy. Would make NO sense to trade him.

Besides that, why would a team even think of trading the 2nd best player in baseball at that position.
Your posts make less and less sense.
Quote 0 0
tweb1216
.
"Son, what are you doing sleeping in my daughter's dormroom?"
-"Uhhhhh, i got to go, im late for class."
-"Its Saturday morning."
-"Then im really late for class. Where are my pants?"
Quote 0 0
formerwiacbaseballer
Melvin "contemplating retirement..."

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25231244/longtime-brewers-gm-doug-melvin-is-contemplating-retirement
"Let's Play Two!!!"

Baseball is not a game that builds character, it is a game that reveals it.

"There are three types of baseball players: those who make things happen, those who watch it happen, and those who wonder what happened."
Quote 0 0
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