wlhssuperjake08 Show full post »
paladium
mickjagger wrote:
wlhssuperjake08 wrote:
Segura hit his first HR since July 30th, 2013 tonight. It'd be really big for the team if he can get it going offensively.

Hopefully, he's healing up physically.


Or just coming out of an early year slump. If this was June or August and someone had a 3 week stretch where they hit .250 people would just shrug and say everyone slumps. Hopefully that is all this was and he gets back on track.

Also, nice to see more power from Davis. If he can get back to hitting with the power we saw last year the offense will look even better.

Good win for Crew and another very good start by Lohse.
The Brewers will finish 90-72 and earn the #1 WC berth.

Carlos Gomez will have a 30/40 season (HR/SB) and win a 2nd Gold Glove en route to an All Star selection.
Quote 0 0
safetysqueezepleezzee11
wlhssuperjake08 wrote:
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
Segura has still looked like Lou Gerhig(during his mini slump) when comparing him to rickie weeks' batting
over the past few years

gotta keep the young guys playing - move them around in the batting order but keep playing them
Segura, Davis and Gennett also Shaefer when he gets healthy

Hopefully the team can come up with a young 1st and 3rd baseman in the next year or 2 to go with
this young group

I still don't see Garza working out and he gets a ton of money
There was a reason the guy was available
Picking up an old pitcher for a young team seems dumb


The key to any good team is a nice mixture of young guys, and veterans. Garza may not be the best veteran around, but he didn't break the bank, or cost a draft pick. He won't have a flashy ERA, but our offense should provide him with decent run support on most days.


Didn't break the bank on Garza?? By what measure would that be?
Garza is the 2nd highest paid Brewer this year at over $12 million.
What has he done in the past? From 2008 thru 2013, the guy won only 59 games(less than 10 per
year on average- 6 years). He also hasn't won a game in 2014. Add in the $12 million they have to swallow for
Weeks salary and that is nearly $25 million. The guy adds little at a high high cost. At least Lohse has
shown he can still do it. Garza was basically let go by several teams for a reason.
I also felt adding a guy like Lohse was not good strategy long term, because of his age.
I admit picking up Lohse has worked out, but picking up older pitchers has never really worked
that well for the Brewers or for most smaller budget teams in general

They had to give Peralta and Estrada a year to get acclimated. The team would have been better off
giving this year to Thornberg to get things worked out. There are some other young starters in the
minors the Brewers could have given some time too. So far it hasn't been shown that Garza has NOT
contributed much and the season is nearly 1/7 over.
Unless you are really delusional and actually think that the Brewers are a contender this year.
I think next year and for sure the following year when Davis, Gennett, Segura, Moldanado(sp) and Shaefer get another
year or two under their belts; Peralta and Estrada continue to improve - the bullpen develops further; then
the Brewers will be a contender. I don't think K-rod is the answer down the road as the closer, but
perhaps Henderson can do that - again that may be a stretch. Perhaps K-rod can continue but not
many closer don't throw any pitches mid-90's these days and K-rod barely hits 90 now.

They will need the $12 million that Weeks salary frees up and I think the $12 million plus they have given Garza
would have helped them land a younger top hitting 1st or 3rd baseman. I could see moving Ramerez to 1st
as soon as next year if they could land a 3rd baseman in free agency. I don think they have the money with
over $12 million going to Garza. I also don't think the Brewers have a 3rd baseman in their system that can help
in the next year or two. Perhaps they do, I just am unaware of who it would be.
I see Garza as a better version of 'Suppan' but not much more and way to costly.
The thing about young starters is it takes them a year or two to really make the jump up to the
majors from the minors. Teams just have to live with that. Brewers have never had a older vet
starting pitcher that came in and really made a difference since Don Sutton.
The team had everything else it needed when they brought Sutton in. The team just doesn't have
all that right now - perhaps next year or the year following.
Build with the young guys and bring in the older 'guns' when the team is right there to contend.
I love watching them win early this year, but I know winning 85 games from this team will
be about the best that can be expected. I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see every player
on the team overachieving all year long.

Obviously some of you who think Garza is a good investment have run your own businesses!
Mark A. has play money to work with - most businesses don't. Will Mark spend more? Who knows but Garza
was NOT a good way to spend over $12 million. He may not be 'old' by age, but as a pitcher he
is over the hill and not by any small amount. For over $12 million, I would want more than what he brings.
I actually don't really know when Garza was at his peak; he seems like he just never really put it all together.
Seemed like the Brewers simply wanted to add a 'veteran' pitcher and Garza was the best they thought
they could get. You didn't see the Yankees or Red Sox go after him - that tells me something right there.
Many teams could have outspent the Brewers IF Garza was that good. I just don't think he is and it
appears most (if not all) of the top teams with mucho money thought he wasnt ALL THAT either.
Quote 0 0
safetysqueezepleezzee11
No, to answer the anticipated question
I don't/didn't consider CC an 'older' pitcher when they picked him up to drive them to the playoffs
That was a great great pickup and those are the things a smaller budget team needs to do
Quote 0 0
mds1541
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
wlhssuperjake08 wrote:
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
Segura has still looked like Lou Gerhig(during his mini slump) when comparing him to rickie weeks' batting
over the past few years

gotta keep the young guys playing - move them around in the batting order but keep playing them
Segura, Davis and Gennett also Shaefer when he gets healthy

Hopefully the team can come up with a young 1st and 3rd baseman in the next year or 2 to go with
this young group

I still don't see Garza working out and he gets a ton of money
There was a reason the guy was available
Picking up an old pitcher for a young team seems dumb


The key to any good team is a nice mixture of young guys, and veterans. Garza may not be the best veteran around, but he didn't break the bank, or cost a draft pick. He won't have a flashy ERA, but our offense should provide him with decent run support on most days.


Didn't break the bank on Garza?? By what measure would that be?
Garza is the 2nd highest paid Brewer this year at over $12 million.
What has he done in the past? From 2008 thru 2013, the guy won only 59 games(less than 10 per
year on average- 6 years). He also hasn't won a game in 2014. Add in the $12 million they have to swallow for
Weeks salary and that is nearly $25 million. The guy adds little at a high high cost. At least Lohse has
shown he can still do it. Garza was basically let go by several teams for a reason.
I also felt adding a guy like Lohse was not good strategy long term, because of his age.
I admit picking up Lohse has worked out, but picking up older pitchers has never really worked
that well for the Brewers or for most smaller budget teams in general

They had to give Peralta and Estrada a year to get acclimated. The team would have been better off
giving this year to Thornberg to get things worked out. There are some other young starters in the
minors the Brewers could have given some time too. So far it hasn't been shown that Garza has NOT
contributed much and the season is nearly 1/7 over.
Unless you are really delusional and actually think that the Brewers are a contender this year.
I think next year and for sure the following year when Davis, Gennett, Segura, Moldanado(sp) and Shaefer get another
year or two under their belts; Peralta and Estrada continue to improve - the bullpen develops further; then
the Brewers will be a contender. I don't think K-rod is the answer down the road as the closer, but
perhaps Henderson can do that - again that may be a stretch. Perhaps K-rod can continue but not
many closer don't throw any pitches mid-90's these days and K-rod barely hits 90 now.

They will need the $12 million that Weeks salary frees up and I think the $12 million plus they have given Garza
would have helped them land a younger top hitting 1st or 3rd baseman. I could see moving Ramerez to 1st
as soon as next year if they could land a 3rd baseman in free agency. I don think they have the money with
over $12 million going to Garza. I also don't think the Brewers have a 3rd baseman in their system that can help
in the next year or two. Perhaps they do, I just am unaware of who it would be.
I see Garza as a better version of 'Suppan' but not much more and way to costly.
The thing about young starters is it takes them a year or two to really make the jump up to the
majors from the minors. Teams just have to live with that. Brewers have never had a older vet
starting pitcher that came in and really made a difference since Don Sutton.
The team had everything else it needed when they brought Sutton in. The team just doesn't have
all that right now - perhaps next year or the year following.
Build with the young guys and bring in the older 'guns' when the team is right there to contend.
I love watching them win early this year, but I know winning 85 games from this team will
be about the best that can be expected. I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see every player
on the team overachieving all year long.

Obviously some of you who think Garza is a good investment have run your own businesses!
Mark A. has play money to work with - most businesses don't. Will Mark spend more? Who knows but Garza
was NOT a good way to spend over $12 million. He may not be 'old' by age, but as a pitcher he
is over the hill and not by any small amount. For over $12 million, I would want more than what he brings.
I actually don't really know when Garza was at his peak; he seems like he just never really put it all together.
Seemed like the Brewers simply wanted to add a 'veteran' pitcher and Garza was the best they thought
they could get. You didn't see the Yankees or Red Sox go after him - that tells me something right there.
Many teams could have outspent the Brewers IF Garza was that good. I just don't think he is and it
appears most (if not all) of the top teams with mucho money thought he wasnt ALL THAT either.


I'm not sure where you get the idea that Garza is over the hill. He was better last year than the year before, and so far this year he has essentially equaled what he did last year. The guy is only 30. He may be on the downswing of his career, but its not uncommon for pitchers to only slightly tail off at the age he'll be when his contract expires. There's also no reason to use wins to analyze Garza as a pitcher. There are way too many variables that essentially make it a useless statistic. Wins are a team stats, not an individual stat. These aren't the days where pitchers come cheap anymore. $12.5 million AAV was thought by some to a great deal, if not a slight bargain.

Basing a signing on the fact that the Yankees and Red Sox didn't offer him is pretty pointless too. The Red Sox didn't need him, and the Yankees decided to pour their millions elsewhere because they had needs in different positions. The Angels did offer him, and he turned it down because it was too early in the offseason.

Pretty funny that you call people saying a 16-6 team can contend "delusional". The Brewers may not make the playoffs this year, at this point it would hardly be a surprise if they did. At that point they have the pitching to compete with anyone.
Quote 0 0
safetysqueezepleezzee11
Segura has still looked like Lou Gerhig(during his mini slump) when comparing him to rickie weeks' batting
over the past few years

gotta keep the young guys playing - move them around in the batting order but keep playing them
Segura, Davis and Gennett also Shaefer when he gets healthy

Hopefully the team can come up with a young 1st and 3rd baseman in the next year or 2 to go with
this young group

I still don't see Garza working out and he gets a ton of money
There was a reason the guy was available
Picking up an old pitcher for a young team seems dumb
Quote 0 0
reberns
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
Segura has still looked like Lou Gerhig(during his mini slump) when comparing him to rickie weeks' batting
over the past few years

gotta keep the young guys playing - move them around in the batting order but keep playing them
Segura, Davis and Gennett also Shaefer when he gets healthy

Hopefully the team can come up with a young 1st and 3rd baseman in the next year or 2 to go with
this young group

I still don't see Garza working out and he gets a ton of money
There was a reason the guy was available
Picking up an old pitcher for a young team seems dumb



Hes only 30. Hes got a few good years left in him
Quote 0 0
mickjagger
wlhssuperjake08 wrote:
wlhssuperjake wrote:
mds1541 wrote:
Didn't break the bank on Garza?? By what measure would that be?
Garza is the 2nd highest paid Brewer this year at over $12 million.
What has he done in the past? From 2008 thru 2013, the guy won only 59 games(less than 10 per
year on average- 6 years). He also hasn't won a game in 2014.Add in the $12 million they have to swallow for Weeks salary and that is nearly $25 million. The guy adds little at a high high cost. At least Lohse has
shown he can still do it. Garza was basically let go by several teams for a reason.
I also felt adding a guy like Lohse was not good strategy long term, because of his age.
I admit picking up Lohse has worked out, but picking up older pitchers has never really worked
that well for the Brewers or for most smaller budget teams in general

They had to give Peralta and Estrada a year to get acclimated. The team would have been better off
giving this year to Thornberg to get things worked out. There are some other young starters in the
minors the Brewers could have given some time too. So far it hasn't been shown that Garza has NOT
contributed much and the season is nearly 1/7 over.
Unless you are really delusional and actually think that the Brewers are a contender this year.
I think next year and for sure the following year when Davis, Gennett, Segura, Moldanado(sp) and Shaefer get another
year or two under their belts; Peralta and Estrada continue to improve - the bullpen develops further; then
the Brewers will be a contender. I don't think K-rod is the answer down the road as the closer, but
perhaps Henderson can do that - again that may be a stretch. Perhaps K-rod can continue but not
many closer don't throw any pitches mid-90's these days and K-rod barely hits 90 now.

They will need the $12 million that Weeks salary frees up and I think the $12 million plus they have given Garza
would have helped them land a younger top hitting 1st or 3rd baseman. I could see moving Ramerez to 1st
as soon as next year if they could land a 3rd baseman in free agency. I don think they have the money with
over $12 million going to Garza. I also don't think the Brewers have a 3rd baseman in their system that can help
in the next year or two. Perhaps they do, I just am unaware of who it would be.
I see Garza as a better version of 'Suppan' but not much more and way to costly.
The thing about young starters is it takes them a year or two to really make the jump up to the
majors from the minors. Teams just have to live with that. Brewers have never had a older vet
starting pitcher that came in and really made a difference since Don Sutton.
The team had everything else it needed when they brought Sutton in. The team just doesn't have
all that right now - perhaps next year or the year following.
Build with the young guys and bring in the older 'guns' when the team is right there to contend.
I love watching them win early this year, but I know winning 85 games from this team will
be about the best that can be expected. I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see every player
on the team overachieving all year long.

Obviously some of you who think Garza is a good investment have run your own businesses!
Mark A. has play money to work with - most businesses don't. Will Mark spend more? Who knows but Garza
was NOT a good way to spend over $12 million. He may not be 'old' by age, but as a pitcher he
is over the hill and not by any small amount. For over $12 million, I would want more than what he brings.
I actually don't really know when Garza was at his peak; he seems like he just never really put it all together.
Seemed like the Brewers simply wanted to add a 'veteran' pitcher and Garza was the best they thought
they could get. You didn't see the Yankees or Red Sox go after him - that tells me something right there.
Many teams could have outspent the Brewers IF Garza was that good. I just don't think he is and it
appears most (if not all) of the top teams with mucho money thought he wasnt ALL THAT either.

You should know that wins are not the be all, end all way of judging a pitcher. In his 2 losses this season, he's given up only 5 ER's total. We loss 1-0 against the Braves, and lost 4-0 against the Cardinals. Guess you can blame Garza though for not getting any run support, right? [] His other 2 starts, the Brewers won. Garza will be the run of the mill, middle of the rotation starter for us for a couple years. No one is asking him to be an ace. He's got a 3.26 career ERA at Miller Park. That's decent for a launching pad. You're going to struggle a lot if you're not willing to pay $12 million a year to a starting pitcher, especially when your farm system can't develop any.

EDIT: I don't have a clue what I did to make everything [h]yellow[/h], I apologize.

Jakey, go to your post and get rid of the bracketed "h's" around mds1541's post. The [h]"highlighted"[/h] text will dissappear.
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
Quote 0 0
db11
Fixed.

Seriously, Garza's pitched what, four times and we just got a novel on how it's the signing that will sink the organization.

While I appreciate the passion it takes to be that committed to an opinion.....come on, man!
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
Quote 0 0
paladium
db11 wrote:
Fixed.

Seriously, Garza's pitched what, four times and we just got a novel on how it's the signing that will sink the organization.

While I appreciate the passion it takes to be that committed to an opinion.....come on, man!


Garza is a career sub-4.0 ERA pitcher. If he repeats that with a 3.7-3.9 ERA the Brewers will have made a good signing.
The Brewers will finish 90-72 and earn the #1 WC berth.

Carlos Gomez will have a 30/40 season (HR/SB) and win a 2nd Gold Glove en route to an All Star selection.
Quote 0 0
safetysqueezepleezzee11
wlhssuperjake08 wrote:
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
Didn't break the bank on Garza?? By what measure would that be?
Garza is the 2nd highest paid Brewer this year at over $12 million.
What has he done in the past? From 2008 thru 2013, the guy won only 59 games(less than 10 per
year on average- 6 years). He also hasn't won a game in 2014. Add in the $12 million they have to swallow for
Weeks salary and that is nearly $25 million. The guy adds little at a high high cost. At least Lohse has
shown he can still do it. Garza was basically let go by several teams for a reason.
I also felt adding a guy like Lohse was not good strategy long term, because of his age.
I admit picking up Lohse has worked out, but picking up older pitchers has never really worked
that well for the Brewers or for most smaller budget teams in general

They had to give Peralta and Estrada a year to get acclimated. The team would have been better off
giving this year to Thornberg to get things worked out. There are some other young starters in the
minors the Brewers could have given some time too. So far it hasn't been shown that Garza has NOT
contributed much and the season is nearly 1/7 over.
Unless you are really delusional and actually think that the Brewers are a contender this year.
I think next year and for sure the following year when Davis, Gennett, Segura, Moldanado(sp) and Shaefer get another
year or two under their belts; Peralta and Estrada continue to improve - the bullpen develops further; then
the Brewers will be a contender. I don't think K-rod is the answer down the road as the closer, but
perhaps Henderson can do that - again that may be a stretch. Perhaps K-rod can continue but not
many closer don't throw any pitches mid-90's these days and K-rod barely hits 90 now.

They will need the $12 million that Weeks salary frees up and I think the $12 million plus they have given Garza
would have helped them land a younger top hitting 1st or 3rd baseman. I could see moving Ramerez to 1st
as soon as next year if they could land a 3rd baseman in free agency. I don think they have the money with
over $12 million going to Garza. I also don't think the Brewers have a 3rd baseman in their system that can help
in the next year or two. Perhaps they do, I just am unaware of who it would be.
I see Garza as a better version of 'Suppan' but not much more and way to costly.
The thing about young starters is it takes them a year or two to really make the jump up to the
majors from the minors. Teams just have to live with that. Brewers have never had a older vet
starting pitcher that came in and really made a difference since Don Sutton.
The team had everything else it needed when they brought Sutton in. The team just doesn't have
all that right now - perhaps next year or the year following.
Build with the young guys and bring in the older 'guns' when the team is right there to contend.
I love watching them win early this year, but I know winning 85 games from this team will
be about the best that can be expected. I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see every player
on the team overachieving all year long.

Obviously some of you who think Garza is a good investment have run your own businesses!
Mark A. has play money to work with - most businesses don't. Will Mark spend more? Who knows but Garza
was NOT a good way to spend over $12 million. He may not be 'old' by age, but as a pitcher he
is over the hill and not by any small amount. For over $12 million, I would want more than what he brings.
I actually don't really know when Garza was at his peak; he seems like he just never really put it all together.
Seemed like the Brewers simply wanted to add a 'veteran' pitcher and Garza was the best they thought
they could get. You didn't see the Yankees or Red Sox go after him - that tells me something right there.
Many teams could have outspent the Brewers IF Garza was that good. I just don't think he is and it
appears most (if not all) of the top teams with mucho money thought he wasnt ALL THAT either.


You should know that wins are not the be all, end all way of judging a pitcher. In his 2 losses this season, he's given up only 5 ER's total. We loss 1-0 against the Braves, and lost 4-0 against the Cardinals. Guess you can blame Garza though for not getting any run support, right? [] His other 2 starts, the Brewers won. Garza will be the run of the mill, middle of the rotation starter for us for a couple years. No one is asking him to be an ace. He's got a 3.26 career ERA at Miller Park. That's decent for a launching pad. You're going to struggle a lot if you're not willing to pay $12 million a year to a starting pitcher, especially when your farm system can't develop any.


You need to check out what Pittsburg, St. Louis, Oakland and Atlanta did last year if you think teams
HAVE to be willing to pay over $12 million for an average starting pitcher or the team will stuggle.
Boston also won more than 95 games but they are in a different stratosphere when it comes
to payroll, so I don't include them in the comparison.
Each of those teams won more than 95 games and COLLECTIVELY only 2 pitchers on those teams
had salaries more than what Garza is being paid by the Brewers.
One is Wainwright (St. Louis) and the other is W. Rodriguis(sp - sorry) who is with Pittsburg.
The rest of the starting pitchers on those teams are made under $10 million and most of them
got paid way way under $10 million. Many under $1 million.
Many of the smaller budget teams seem to be able to do it without overpaying older pitchers
that other teams let go. It only seems logical if other teams can do it, the Brewers can too.

Also, the Brewers struggled last year because of their hitting. Their pitching certainly wasn't great but
their hitting was horrible for the team as a whole. Injuries and suspections played into that. Then
you had Rickie Weeks who contributed next to nothing.
I just think the Brewers could have found a better way to use the $12.5 million later in the season IF
they are a contender OR in the off season when Weeks salary comes off the books to.

I have watched Garza for years and he just doesnt impress me. For $5-6 Million perhaps.
Garza is at best a decent teams 4th or 5th starter - no more and no less.
No way I would ever give that guy $12.5 million.
You say you don't expect him to be an ace, yet you are willing to pay him $12.5 million??
That seems absurd to me.
I fully realize few if any will agree with this, especially now that the Brewers are the 1927 Yankees
in many minds due to their great start.
Quote 0 0
wlhssuperjake08
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
wlhssuperjake08 wrote:
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
Didn't break the bank on Garza?? By what measure would that be?
Garza is the 2nd highest paid Brewer this year at over $12 million.
What has he done in the past? From 2008 thru 2013, the guy won only 59 games(less than 10 per
year on average- 6 years). He also hasn't won a game in 2014. Add in the $12 million they have to swallow for
Weeks salary and that is nearly $25 million. The guy adds little at a high high cost. At least Lohse has
shown he can still do it. Garza was basically let go by several teams for a reason.
I also felt adding a guy like Lohse was not good strategy long term, because of his age.
I admit picking up Lohse has worked out, but picking up older pitchers has never really worked
that well for the Brewers or for most smaller budget teams in general

They had to give Peralta and Estrada a year to get acclimated. The team would have been better off
giving this year to Thornberg to get things worked out. There are some other young starters in the
minors the Brewers could have given some time too. So far it hasn't been shown that Garza has NOT
contributed much and the season is nearly 1/7 over.
Unless you are really delusional and actually think that the Brewers are a contender this year.
I think next year and for sure the following year when Davis, Gennett, Segura, Moldanado(sp) and Shaefer get another
year or two under their belts; Peralta and Estrada continue to improve - the bullpen develops further; then
the Brewers will be a contender. I don't think K-rod is the answer down the road as the closer, but
perhaps Henderson can do that - again that may be a stretch. Perhaps K-rod can continue but not
many closer don't throw any pitches mid-90's these days and K-rod barely hits 90 now.

They will need the $12 million that Weeks salary frees up and I think the $12 million plus they have given Garza
would have helped them land a younger top hitting 1st or 3rd baseman. I could see moving Ramerez to 1st
as soon as next year if they could land a 3rd baseman in free agency. I don think they have the money with
over $12 million going to Garza. I also don't think the Brewers have a 3rd baseman in their system that can help
in the next year or two. Perhaps they do, I just am unaware of who it would be.
I see Garza as a better version of 'Suppan' but not much more and way to costly.
The thing about young starters is it takes them a year or two to really make the jump up to the
majors from the minors. Teams just have to live with that. Brewers have never had a older vet
starting pitcher that came in and really made a difference since Don Sutton.
The team had everything else it needed when they brought Sutton in. The team just doesn't have
all that right now - perhaps next year or the year following.
Build with the young guys and bring in the older 'guns' when the team is right there to contend.
I love watching them win early this year, but I know winning 85 games from this team will
be about the best that can be expected. I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see every player
on the team overachieving all year long.

Obviously some of you who think Garza is a good investment have run your own businesses!
Mark A. has play money to work with - most businesses don't. Will Mark spend more? Who knows but Garza
was NOT a good way to spend over $12 million. He may not be 'old' by age, but as a pitcher he
is over the hill and not by any small amount. For over $12 million, I would want more than what he brings.
I actually don't really know when Garza was at his peak; he seems like he just never really put it all together.
Seemed like the Brewers simply wanted to add a 'veteran' pitcher and Garza was the best they thought
they could get. You didn't see the Yankees or Red Sox go after him - that tells me something right there.
Many teams could have outspent the Brewers IF Garza was that good. I just don't think he is and it
appears most (if not all) of the top teams with mucho money thought he wasnt ALL THAT either.


You should know that wins are not the be all, end all way of judging a pitcher. In his 2 losses this season, he's given up only 5 ER's total. We loss 1-0 against the Braves, and lost 4-0 against the Cardinals. Guess you can blame Garza though for not getting any run support, right? [] His other 2 starts, the Brewers won. Garza will be the run of the mill, middle of the rotation starter for us for a couple years. No one is asking him to be an ace. He's got a 3.26 career ERA at Miller Park. That's decent for a launching pad. You're going to struggle a lot if you're not willing to pay $12 million a year to a starting pitcher, especially when your farm system can't develop any.


You need to check out what Pittsburg, St. Louis, Oakland and Atlanta did last year if you think teams
HAVE to be willing to pay over $12 million for an average starting pitcher or the team will stuggle.
Boston also won more than 95 games but they are in a different stratosphere when it comes
to payroll, so I don't include them in the comparison.
Each of those teams won more than 95 games and COLLECTIVELY only 2 pitchers on those teams
had salaries more than what Garza is being paid by the Brewers.
One is Wainwright (St. Louis) and the other is W. Rodriguis(sp - sorry) who is with Pittsburg.
The rest of the starting pitchers on those teams are made under $10 million and most of them
got paid way way under $10 million. Many under $1 million.
Many of the smaller budget teams seem to be able to do it without overpaying older pitchers
that other teams let go. It only seems logical if other teams can do it, the Brewers can too.


Also, the Brewers struggled last year because of their hitting. Their pitching certainly wasn't great but
their hitting was horrible for the team as a whole. Injuries and suspections played into that. Then
you had Rickie Weeks who contributed next to nothing.
I just think the Brewers could have found a better way to use the $12.5 million later in the season IF
they are a contender OR in the off season when Weeks salary comes off the books to.

I have watched Garza for years and he just doesnt impress me. For $5-6 Million perhaps.
Garza is at best a decent teams 4th or 5th starter - no more and no less.
No way I would ever give that guy $12.5 million.
You say you don't expect him to be an ace, yet you are willing to pay him $12.5 million??
That seems absurd to me.
I fully realize few if any will agree with this, especially now that the Brewers are the 1927 Yankees
in many minds due to their great start.


You fail to realize that the Brewers can't develop starting pitching, and they are forced to go out and get pitchers from the free agent market, or trade for them. The Cardinals are home grown, Atlanta is home grown, Oakland can scout and find value for their money (better management), and Pittsburgh finally had some talent in 30 years.
WSN Hall of Fame 2015 Inductee

https://twitter.com/Wlhssuperjake08
Quote 0 0
safetysqueezepleezzee11
Picking up pitchers is one thing. Picking up a guy who won only 59 games the previous
6 years and paying him $12.5 million for this year is another thing.
Garza is the 2nd highest paid Brewer on the roster this year.

I just disagree with paying the guy that much money.
It just takes me back to the Suppan disaster.
Quote 0 0
wlhssuperjake08
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
Didn't break the bank on Garza?? By what measure would that be?
Garza is the 2nd highest paid Brewer this year at over $12 million.
What has he done in the past? From 2008 thru 2013, the guy won only 59 games(less than 10 per
year on average- 6 years). He also hasn't won a game in 2014. Add in the $12 million they have to swallow for
Weeks salary and that is nearly $25 million. The guy adds little at a high high cost. At least Lohse has
shown he can still do it. Garza was basically let go by several teams for a reason.
I also felt adding a guy like Lohse was not good strategy long term, because of his age.
I admit picking up Lohse has worked out, but picking up older pitchers has never really worked
that well for the Brewers or for most smaller budget teams in general

They had to give Peralta and Estrada a year to get acclimated. The team would have been better off
giving this year to Thornberg to get things worked out. There are some other young starters in the
minors the Brewers could have given some time too. So far it hasn't been shown that Garza has NOT
contributed much and the season is nearly 1/7 over.
Unless you are really delusional and actually think that the Brewers are a contender this year.
I think next year and for sure the following year when Davis, Gennett, Segura, Moldanado(sp) and Shaefer get another
year or two under their belts; Peralta and Estrada continue to improve - the bullpen develops further; then
the Brewers will be a contender. I don't think K-rod is the answer down the road as the closer, but
perhaps Henderson can do that - again that may be a stretch. Perhaps K-rod can continue but not
many closer don't throw any pitches mid-90's these days and K-rod barely hits 90 now.

They will need the $12 million that Weeks salary frees up and I think the $12 million plus they have given Garza
would have helped them land a younger top hitting 1st or 3rd baseman. I could see moving Ramerez to 1st
as soon as next year if they could land a 3rd baseman in free agency. I don think they have the money with
over $12 million going to Garza. I also don't think the Brewers have a 3rd baseman in their system that can help
in the next year or two. Perhaps they do, I just am unaware of who it would be.
I see Garza as a better version of 'Suppan' but not much more and way to costly.
The thing about young starters is it takes them a year or two to really make the jump up to the
majors from the minors. Teams just have to live with that. Brewers have never had a older vet
starting pitcher that came in and really made a difference since Don Sutton.
The team had everything else it needed when they brought Sutton in. The team just doesn't have
all that right now - perhaps next year or the year following.
Build with the young guys and bring in the older 'guns' when the team is right there to contend.
I love watching them win early this year, but I know winning 85 games from this team will
be about the best that can be expected. I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see every player
on the team overachieving all year long.

Obviously some of you who think Garza is a good investment have run your own businesses!
Mark A. has play money to work with - most businesses don't. Will Mark spend more? Who knows but Garza
was NOT a good way to spend over $12 million. He may not be 'old' by age, but as a pitcher he
is over the hill and not by any small amount. For over $12 million, I would want more than what he brings.
I actually don't really know when Garza was at his peak; he seems like he just never really put it all together.
Seemed like the Brewers simply wanted to add a 'veteran' pitcher and Garza was the best they thought
they could get. You didn't see the Yankees or Red Sox go after him - that tells me something right there.
Many teams could have outspent the Brewers IF Garza was that good. I just don't think he is and it
appears most (if not all) of the top teams with mucho money thought he wasnt ALL THAT either.


You should know that wins are not the be all, end all way of judging a pitcher. In his 2 losses this season, he's given up only 5 ER's total. We loss 1-0 against the Braves, and lost 4-0 against the Cardinals. Guess you can blame Garza though for not getting any run support, right? [] His other 2 starts, the Brewers won. Garza will be the run of the mill, middle of the rotation starter for us for a couple years. No one is asking him to be an ace. He's got a 3.26 career ERA at Miller Park. That's decent for a launching pad. You're going to struggle a lot if you're not willing to pay $12 million a year to a starting pitcher, especially when your farm system can't develop any.
WSN Hall of Fame 2015 Inductee

https://twitter.com/Wlhssuperjake08
Quote 0 0
paladium
Garza spent half of 2012 injured, and only pitched ~100 innings. In 2013 he threw for ~150 innings. Prior to that, he had four straight seasons of 180+ innings and 30+ starts with a sub 4 ERA.

To get a veteran pitcher with a career 3.85 ERA you are going to pay, and 12.5 million isn't that steep a price.

Also, something to remember. In the decade from 2002-2011 player salaries rose by an average of 58%. And, the rate of increase is growing each year. Look at it this way. In 2012, the Brewers got $10m from Fox Sports. In 2013, that jumped to $21m. Those numbers will continue to go up throughout the decade, when their contract expires. If the Brewers play it smart and don't re-negotiate until 2018/2019, they will have increased leverage to jack up their annual cost. Live programming (especially sports) has been skyrocketing in value and will continue to do so. Look for the Brewers to start increasing their payroll by $5m a year for the next 5-10 years.

With the number of pre-arbitration players on the roster, the Crew have the money to spend on players like Garza. If they didn't spend it on him, MA would be pocketing it as profit. Luckily, MA is someone who prefers to re-invest that money in players to improve the team.

It is also important to remember what the Brewers have on contract next year. They do NOT have Rickie Weeks (option), which saves 12 million. Ramirez has a 14 million joint option, which would save 2 million (and if he stays healthy it'll likely be accepted). Currently, the Brewers have 52 million on contract for next year (66 million with Ramirez). Some of their younger stars are pre-arbitration or just entering arbitration (like Estrada), meaning their salaries will be down. Even with Lohse and Garza, the brewers should have around 30 million to spend in free agency or on contract extensions.
The Brewers will finish 90-72 and earn the #1 WC berth.

Carlos Gomez will have a 30/40 season (HR/SB) and win a 2nd Gold Glove en route to an All Star selection.
Quote 0 0
wissportsnet

Boys Basketball Alumni Round-up: February 21st, from @ColtonWilson23 #wisbb -- https://t.co/0K6CZzZWpf https://t.co/715tfpBGVS

wissportsnet

WSN15: Boys Basketball Top Teams #12 -- Two NCAA Division I players at one WIAA Division 4 school = state champions… https://t.co/1MThqzce9L

wissportsnet

Predicting winners of every state wrestling title plus a look By The Numbers, from @Nate_Woelfel -… https://t.co/HgU1bLP7d6

wissportsnet

Join the free Boys Basketball Playoff Pick 'Em Contest; Staff picks coming Tuesday #wisbb -- https://t.co/Y6yTA3OgP8 https://t.co/hA6Uyw9uje