levelm Show full post »
newmen
levelm wrote:
Technically you are on the line if a line can be drawn through the forward foot or helmet through the waist of the snapper.  Philosophically as long as the receiver off the line is noticeably behind the other receiver(s)/linemen on the line he is ok.

Most receivers do it, but they should check with the official every play to make sure they are lined up correctly by telling/signaling where they want to be lined up.  Good officials will use preventative officiating and move them forward or back if necessary.  In my experience, officials are pretty lenient on agreeing with the receivers on where they are lined up, penalties happen when they don't check.
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dochaus
Need an understanding of what I think is a dumb rule that I have seen multiple times in high school.

Team has the ball on the opponents 32 yard line and attempts a 49 yard field goal.  Kick is not even close and rolls through the end zone..  I think I have seen it just stop in end zone other times but nobody is back and ref blows it dead.  Why in the heck does the opposing team get the ball at the 20 yard line?  The kicking team gains 12 yards on a missed field goal?  What is stopping at team from attempting a 60 yarder when the other team will get it at the 20 if they miss it?  When is the ball live and how is it decided where the team gets the ball after a missed field goal
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traviswilson
dochaus wrote:
Need an understanding of what I think is a dumb rule that I have seen multiple times in high school.

Team has the ball on the opponents 32 yard line and attempts a 49 yard field goal.  Kick is not even close and rolls through the end zone..  I think I have seen it just stop in end zone other times but nobody is back and ref blows it dead.  Why in the heck does the opposing team get the ball at the 20 yard line?  The kicking team gains 12 yards on a missed field goal?  What is stopping at team from attempting a 60 yarder when the other team will get it at the 20 if they miss it?  When is the ball live and how is it decided where the team gets the ball after a missed field goal

Any kick (punt, kickoff, field goal attempt) is considered a free kick and has the same rules when the kick travels into the end zone; it is a touchback and the opposing team gets the ball at the 20 yard line.
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levelm

Any kick (punt, kickoff, field goal attempt) is considered a free kick and has the same rules when the kick travels into the end zone; it is a touchback and the opposing team gets the ball at the 20 yard line.


Travis is mostly correct that any kick that crosses the goal line is dead and awarded a touchback.  There is no reason a team couldn't attempt field goals on punts every time, except punts typically go further and are harder to block.

For the rule police, only kickoffs are "free kicks," (free kick lines are 10 yds apart), while punts and field goals are scrimmage kicks.
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pippin
Runner is in the backfield, gets his facemask grabbed violently, spun him around, flag flies for 15 yard PF. Runner breaks free gets to the sideline for a 1 yard gain and then is hit late OOB. Flag flies for another 15 yard PF.

Refs explain that only 1 penalty will be enforced. So my questions are these:

1. If a PF occurs early in a play, is it really a free for all after that since anything additional will not be enforced?
2. Was the facemask penalty "during the play" and the late hit OOB "after the play was over" so that both could have been enforced?
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traviswilson
pippin wrote:
Runner is in the backfield, gets his facemask grabbed violently, spun him around, flag flies for 15 yard PF. Runner breaks free gets to the sideline for a 1 yard gain and then is hit late OOB. Flag flies for another 15 yard PF.

Refs explain that only 1 penalty will be enforced. So my questions are these:

1. If a PF occurs early in a play, is it really a free for all after that since anything additional will not be enforced?
2. Was the facemask penalty "during the play" and the late hit OOB "after the play was over" so that both could have been enforced?

I'll defer to the fully licensed officials for the official ruling, but I believe both penalties should be enforced. The facemask is a live ball penalty while the late hit out of bounds is a dead ball penalty. Thus, both should be enforced. 

I'll add a follow-up clarification question: Can two live ball personal foul penalties on the defense both be enforced, or is it just one?
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db11
levelm wrote:


Travis is mostly correct that any kick that crosses the goal line is dead and awarded a touchback.  There is no reason a team couldn't attempt field goals on punts every time, except punts typically go further and are harder to block.

For the rule police, only kickoffs are "free kicks," (free kick lines are 10 yds apart), while punts and field goals are scrimmage kicks.


Muskego actually did this often a few years ago when they had Leki Prpa kicking for them. Only time I've ever seen a team line up for a 90-yard FG.
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levelm

I'll defer to the fully licensed officials for the official ruling, but I believe both penalties should be enforced. The facemask is a live ball penalty while the late hit out of bounds is a dead ball penalty. Thus, both should be enforced. 

I'll add a follow-up clarification question: Can two live ball personal foul penalties on the defense both be enforced, or is it just one?


The original play was not enforced correctly, both fouls should have been enforced, one live ball and one dead ball.  30 yds from the end of the run.

Only one live ball penalty can be enforced against each team during a play.  Any number of dead ball fouls can be enforced, although multiple fouls on both teams will be cancelled out (most of the time).  If Team A has 3 dead ball fouls and Team B has 2, only one foul against team A will be enforced.
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pippin
Thanks guys. On further thought, the second flag might have been for a helmet to helmet hit at the sideline deemed to be during the play. Hard to tell exactly from the stands, but I know it was a PF of some sort.

But the issue was that after discussion, the refs announced only one PF penalty would be enforced.

Coach and fans were upset that the defense was free to take shots at the offensive players just because a PF penalty occurred earlier on the play.

It didn't feel right at the time.
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sonsofdonbosco

Okay, I've seen this enforced differently over the years so I have to ask what the modern interpretation is of this one: On an option play, is it legal for the defense to tackle the pitchman behind the line of scrimmage before he receives a pitch? 

I've seen teams get away with this behind the rationalization that the pitchman is "carrying out a fake".

I've also seen teams get penalized for it, though at the time the rationale for the penalty was not explained.

Very curious about this answer.

 

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levelm

Okay, I've seen this enforced differently over the years so I have to ask what the modern interpretation is of this one: On an option play, is it legal for the defense to tackle the pitchman behind the line of scrimmage before he receives a pitch? 


Tackling an eligible receiver (or any non-runner) would be holding, but there is no restriction on being legally hit.  A player is a runner if they have the ball or are carrying out a fake.

 

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