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sportsfan18_old
Madcityspecial42 wrote:


sportsfan18 wrote:


Madcity, I do like your new Badger South conference suggestion because I see the logic you are employing. I do, as well, like the attempt you made to relocate the other teams left out of the new Badger South. I do however disagree with the notion that the teams you listed in the new Badger South would be the most competitive, as I believe they would be hurting in some areas with the absence of Monroe and Milton. I think Monroe is very good in alot of sports, Cross country, Track and field, Basketball, Tennis, Softball (even though Im sure you do not that much about girls sports), and decent at other sports. Milton Is good at Football, wrestling, tennis, and other sports (I think).

The inclusion of Fort baffles me. I see that geographically they would be a few miles closer, but other than that they add nothing more, and probably less then Milton or Monroe. They were towards the bottom in alot of the sports in the current Badger South. With Proximity and Geography in mind only, your idea of the new badger south conference is made plausible but as far as competitivness I would say there could be a better arrangment of teams assembled to make a conference. I guess one way or another one area would see some sort of sacrifice.

As Far as Monroe's enrollment, you are correct in saying that the recent trends have marked a decline in the enrollment numbers. However, recently Monroe's enrollment numbers have stablized and appear to possibly increase (though not significantly).






The thing with most of these schools is that as the enrollment fluxuates, so does the sports sucesses. It is really hard to step back and take a look at the sports that dont really matter to us. i think that it is a bad idea to group waunakee with Big 8 teams. they just dont have the size and will not for a long time if there growth rate continues at 10-20 students a yr. a few yrs back MG went to state in football, basketball, and girls soccer a few championships and silver balls, nobody rushed to add them to the big 8, which was the right desicion. verona is a good fit bc they were around 1500 when they were added, so a slow growth is fine, adding that they have good programs that will ensure sucess throughout the future. The last thing we want is to have Waunakee in the Big 8 and all of a sudden students are discouraged from going out for certain sports bc they will be beat down every single yr by the madison schools.

There are also so many factors that we cant know, stuff like busing and budgets for individual schools. Do I think that the WIAA has it right? no. Do i think that they are probably doing all they can with what they have? ill give them the benefit of the doubt. thanks for accepting my views or suggestions with an open mind and its fun to play WIAA god for a lil while even if we have abs no power over the situation[]


The comment about Waunakee's enrollment taking 10-20 years seems like an unresonable assesment. Verona less then 10 years ago was the smallest team in the Badger when they moved over from the Capitol conference. Now look at them. Waunakee 8 years ago had an enrollment small enough to be in D3 for football and D2 in basketball. Presently they have risen to close to 1200 students and are climbing yet. Their enrollment will reach a comparable number so to fit in the Big 8 within the next 5 years. Your right, a programs success does fluctuate depending on variables; as all program ascend and decend from greatness. The same could be said for the larger teams within the Big 8 now, so that cant be an argument against Waunakee joining. As for you concerns about Waunakee's future success against the Big 8, all you have to do is look at the numbers. Waunakee has had a great football program for over a decade and lets face it, the Big 8 has not been a powerhouse as a football conference, and to think that Wauankee would not be competitve is absurd. Verona has only had success in football for 8 years, and have been no where near Waunakee's dominance of 15 years of conference success. In Baketball, even if they drop of their current pace, would place Waunakee right in the middle of the conference. Same can be said for the rest of the sports.

As for Edgewood, I will not try to suade you to change your opinion on their place in the Badger South. I just feel that they are obviously a very success program (as one may see by looking at all their championships and success) and despite their enrollment they would add another competitive team which is in close proximity to the rest of the Big 8 schools. They could make up for their lack of numbers by being a private school (sorry for those who take that statement the wrong way, I do not mean to start up a private vs. public debate.) To each there own I suppose.

I know there are alot of sports that do not get the accolades that other bigger sports such as footbal and basketball do. However the overall competitiveness of a program must be acessed by looking at all the sports programs. I agree this kind of analysis and realignment talk is fun to banter about.
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Riverman_old
What you are saying about Edgewood makes sense. Yes, they are smaller, but b/c of the way they are put together, they could compete. For us in the La Crosse area (Miss Valley Conf), the MVC is a mix of D1 (Logan, Central, Holmen, Tomah), D2 (Onalaska, Sparta) and even D3 (Aquinas)...but guess who has been the most dominant team recently in the conference across many sports (basketball, baseball, football)....yes, the D3 team, Aquinas. They have the luxury of having athletes from all over the greater La Crosse area (100,000+) while the other schools get kids from their districts. So it is a fair fight, as proven by their success.
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madcityspecial42
sportsfan18 wrote:


Madcity, I do like your new Badger South conference suggestion because I see the logic you are employing. I do, as well, like the attempt you made to relocate the other teams left out of the new Badger South. I do however disagree with the notion that the teams you listed in the new Badger South would be the most competitive, as I believe they would be hurting in some areas with the absence of Monroe and Milton. I think Monroe is very good in alot of sports, Cross country, Track and field, Basketball, Tennis, Softball (even though Im sure you do not that much about girls sports), and decent at other sports. Milton Is good at Football, wrestling, tennis, and other sports (I think).

The inclusion of Fort baffles me. I see that geographically they would be a few miles closer, but other than that they add nothing more, and probably less then Milton or Monroe. They were towards the bottom in alot of the sports in the current Badger South. With Proximity and Geography in mind only, your idea of the new badger south conference is made plausible but as far as competitivness I would say there could be a better arrangment of teams assembled to make a conference. I guess one way or another one area would see some sort of sacrifice.

As Far as Monroe's enrollment, you are correct in saying that the recent trends have marked a decline in the enrollment numbers. However, recently Monroe's enrollment numbers have stablized and appear to possibly increase (though not significantly).






The thing with most of these schools is that as the enrollment fluxuates, so does the sports sucesses. It is really hard to step back and take a look at the sports that dont really matter to us. i think that it is a bad idea to group waunakee with Big 8 teams. they just dont have the size and will not for a long time if there growth rate continues at 10-20 students a yr. a few yrs back MG went to state in football, basketball, and girls soccer a few championships and silver balls, nobody rushed to add them to the big 8, which was the right desicion. verona is a good fit bc they were around 1500 when they were added, so a slow growth is fine, adding that they have good programs that will ensure sucess throughout the future. The last thing we want is to have Waunakee in the Big 8 and all of a sudden students are discouraged from going out for certain sports bc they will be beat down every single yr by the madison schools.

There are also so many factors that we cant know, stuff like busing and budgets for individual schools. Do I think that the WIAA has it right? no. Do i think that they are probably doing all they can with what they have? ill give them the benefit of the doubt. thanks for accepting my views or suggestions with an open mind and its fun to play WIAA god for a lil while even if we have abs no power over the situation[]




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madcityspecial42
I also believe strongly that edgewood belongs with the core of the BS stoughton oregon MG there is a lot of history between those teams and i think having some non conf games once every 3 or so yrs will extinguish those fires fast, a la MG McFarland rivalry. would hate to see it go down that way



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sportsfan18_old
My mistake Madcity, I obviously did not read your post very carefully. From recent trends in seeing the city grow and bring new industry and jobs, and being so close to Madison it is not totally unlikely for the trend of 10-20 kids per year to increase. But that is just my opinion. Enrollment aside, they are ready to compete now, as the head to head results against Big 8 competition speak for themselves, or atleast in Basketball, which is what the Big 8 is known for. Football-wise, Waunakee could contend and even win most years. I mean I know some southern badger teams who are nowhere near accomplished as Waunakee have competed and beaten Big 8 teams in football. Lafollette lost to Oregon 28-12 in 2005, and again in 2006 28-21, 2006 Sun Prairie (co-conference champs) won a close game over MG 21-7 (who finished 5-5). Just a couple examples...nothing profound but worth noting.
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madcityspecial42
sportsfan18 wrote:


My mistake Madcity, I obviously did not read your post very carefully. From recent trends in seeing the city grow and bring new industry and jobs, and being so close to Madison it is not totally unlikely for the trend of 10-20 kids per year to increase. But that is just my opinion. Enrollment aside, they are ready to compete now, as the head to head results against Big 8 competition speak for themselves, or atleast in Basketball, which is what the Big 8 is known for. Football-wise, Waunakee could contend and even win most years. I mean I know some southern badger teams who are nowhere near accomplished as Waunakee have competed and beaten Big 8 teams in football. Lafollette lost to Oregon 28-12 in 2005, and again in 2006 28-21, 2006 Sun Prairie (co-conference champs) won a close game over MG 21-7 (who finished 5-5). Just a couple examples...nothing profound but worth noting.


I agree with you that they could have competed this year or these few yrs coming up. I am more concerned with the long run of things. every program has ups and downs and if your highest point is "competing" or placing middle to top of the conference, then i think that there lows will be too low, and it will discourage kids from going out, and the community support will ween. Do i think that this would be the case with football? no, although i dont think they would win every yr like they do in BN. Basketball? absolutely yes. Waunakee would never win the Big 8 in buckets, as JMM, Beloit and East have great programs with a student base of 50,000 or so and enrollments of double waunakee.

as far as those examples go, i think that it also be helpful to see how BN teams have done against Big 8 so we can see if the competition level would be higher (in my opinion yes) or lower.



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madcityspecial42
I said that there enrollment increases by 10-20 a year not that it will take 10-20 yrs. they have gone from 991 to 1125 in six years at that rate it would take them 18 yrs to be where verona (the smallest big8 school) is right now. so unless you see some kind of boom in population of waunakee, it will be a while until they are ready



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fbtres
Waunakee won a total of 4 games in the 2005 2006 season and the senior class last year(who were freshmen at the time) had 10 kids still out during their senior year which is just as many if not more then most big 8 schools. They went from winning 4 games to winning 23 2 years later waunakee was never good at basketball but they still had a ton of kids coming out allowing the new coaching staff (thats only been there for 5 years now and has already had a lot of success i would say)to succeed. i think even if they went into the big 8 they would still get a good number of kids to come out every year. plus with a school half the size of the madison schools they have almost matched if not surpassed the madison schools in support at the sectional games, so i doubt the support will ever die. So i do not beleive a big 8 move will push kids away from the sport. plus if u ever drive through waunakee u'll understand y so many kids play sports there is nothing to do.
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sportsfan18_old
Madcityspecial42 wrote:


sportsfan18 wrote:


My mistake Madcity, I obviously did not read your post very carefully. From recent trends in seeing the city grow and bring new industry and jobs, and being so close to Madison it is not totally unlikely for the trend of 10-20 kids per year to increase. But that is just my opinion. Enrollment aside, they are ready to compete now, as the head to head results against Big 8 competition speak for themselves, or atleast in Basketball, which is what the Big 8 is known for. Football-wise, Waunakee could contend and even win most years. I mean I know some southern badger teams who are nowhere near accomplished as Waunakee have competed and beaten Big 8 teams in football. Lafollette lost to Oregon 28-12 in 2005, and again in 2006 28-21, 2006 Sun Prairie (co-conference champs) won a close game over MG 21-7 (who finished 5-5). Just a couple examples...nothing profound but worth noting.


I agree with you that they could have competed this year or these few yrs coming up. I am more concerned with the long run of things. every program has ups and downs and if your highest point is "competing" or placing middle to top of the conference, then i think that there lows will be too low, and it will discourage kids from going out, and the community support will ween. Do i think that this would be the case with football? no, although i dont think they would win every yr like they do in BN. Basketball? absolutely yes. Waunakee would never win the Big 8 in buckets, as JMM, Beloit and East have great programs with a student base of 50,000 or so and enrollments of double waunakee.

as far as those examples go, i think that it also be helpful to see how BN teams have done against Big 8 so we can see if the competition level would be higher (in my opinion yes) or lower.

I agree with you on the last bolded statement, however I could not find any head-to-head comparisons between games played by Badger North teams and Big 8 teams. I suppose I used the Badger South examples because they are the closest source to which provide a comparable sample by which to judge. Waunakee has played teams from the Badger South with regular success throught its history, and being a former member of the unified Badger conference as recently as 2000, they won the conference going undefeated. They also beat Verona in its two non-conference games back in 2002 and 2003 (the closest big 8 example I have).
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