whfan202

So I see the WIAA has expanded its field to 16 teams yet still shuts out teams with an enrollment average north of 200. 🙄 

Why does the WIAA do this? 

Seems very arbitrary and penalizes schools who haven’t done anything wrong except be over an average by 30 kids. Hard to keep a team motivated when there’s nothing to play for. 

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db11
whfan202 wrote:

So I see the WIAA has expanded its field to 16 teams yet still shuts out teams with an enrollment average north of 200. 🙄 

Why does the WIAA do this? 

Seems very arbitrary and penalizes schools who haven’t done anything wrong except be over an average by 30 kids. Hard to keep a team motivated when there’s nothing to play for. 



Imagine someone like West Allis Central deciding to play 8-man.

8-man came in as a way to alleviate numbers issues for schools with the lowest enrollment first and foremost and some other schools decided to go that route as well (and a few still confuse me as to why they are in 8-man)...and until a larger proportion of teams are playing it's likely to remain that way. The chips are still very much falling. Patience is snecessary.

I don't mind it. Everyone's still getting a feel for the game itself and the last thing we need is some enrollment mismatch in a playoff game.

Kinda defeats the purpose if a sub-100 school gets throttled by a 300 enrollment school in the playoffs, when that disparity (3x) doesn't exist in 11-man's smallest divisions.

I think you do have to guard against abuse, "well, we don't win in 11-man, so let's go beat up on smaller schools in 8-man and win a cheap state title."
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whfan202
db11 wrote:


Imagine someone like West Allis Central deciding to play 8-man.

8-man came in as a way to alleviate numbers issues for schools with the lowest enrollment first and foremost and some other schools decided to go that route as well (and a few still confuse me as to why they are in 8-man)...and until a larger proportion of teams are playing it's likely to remain that way. The chips are still very much falling. Patience is snecessary.

I don't mind it. Everyone's still getting a feel for the game itself and the last thing we need is some enrollment mismatch in a playoff game.

Kinda defeats the purpose if a sub-100 school gets throttled by a 300 enrollment school in the playoffs, when that disparity (3x) doesn't exist in 11-man's smallest divisions.

I think you do have to guard against abuse, "well, we don't win in 11-man, so let's go beat up on smaller schools in 8-man and win a cheap state title."

To your point, I get that. And I see why they do that. But couldn’t they bump it to 250? Look at the amount of kids on rosters for the ineligible teams. There are some 8 man teams who could easily be competitive 11 man teams. But I digress. 
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traviswilson
whfan202 wrote:

To your point, I get that. And I see why they do that. But couldn’t they bump it to 250? Look at the amount of kids on rosters for the ineligible teams. There are some 8 man teams who could easily be competitive 11 man teams. But I digress. 

For states that sponsor a reduced player tournament, I believe Wisconsin has the highest enrollment cap. Most states are more like 125-150.
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amped0808
Again there a probably a few groups that despise the cap at 200 on the basis of schools co-oping with each other to push the combined enrollment over the limit (SMC/VC, GB NEW Luth/ON/PA etc.). 

DB alluded to it with teams like North Fond Du Lac and Sturgeon Bay (with the well-meaning intention to get playing time for the players that are sticking with their respective programs) dropping their 11-man schedules to play filler 8-man games the number deter teams that have mightily struggled in the 11-man version with enrollments well over the 200 limit. Do I see it maybe changing in the near furture? Possibly but we need more of a bigger size of schools going to 8-man before that matter gets discussed. The amount of teams heading to 8-man next could start that talk but I rather keep it at 200 until it's time to debate it further.
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blade12
whfan202 wrote:

So I see the WIAA has expanded its field to 16 teams yet still shuts out teams with an enrollment average north of 200. 🙄 

Why does the WIAA do this? 

Seems very arbitrary and penalizes schools who haven’t done anything wrong except be over an average by 30 kids. Hard to keep a team motivated when there’s nothing to play for. 



I don't buy the "nothing to play for" part.  Any team finishing in the bottom of their conference isn't getting an 11-man playoff game either and traditionally many of those teams have been in the bottom of the conference for years. Do they have anything to play for?

I'd rather see a roster limit for 8 man than an enrollment limit. Would coaches cut players to get under that number... I hope not and the AD and school should have an issue with that. I suppose you have to draw a line somewhere so no matter where they set that someone isn't happy.  What is the difference between a school of 250 with 24 kids out for FB and a school of 175 with 30?  
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amped0808

For states that sponsor a reduced player tournament, I believe Wisconsin has the highest enrollment cap. Most states are more like 125-150.


I am aware that Michigan enrollment cap is around 188-193 for 8-man which is around the cut off to be Class D (Smallest enrollment group) in Michigan with a one year grace period for teams over the limit.
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nospotshooters
Next year 8 man will have roughly just as many teams as an 11 man division. The WIAA has to make a decision on the 8 man playoff cutline; and when, not if, to contract D7.

Based on their history, I expect an announcement in 2028.
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blade12
amped0808 wrote:
Again there a probably a few groups that despise the cap at 200 on the basis of schools co-oping with each other to push the combined enrollment over the limit (SMC/VC, GB NEW Luth/ON/PA etc.). 

DB alluded to it with teams like North Fond Du Lac and Sturgeon Bay (with the well-meaning intention to get playing time for the players that are sticking with their respective programs) dropping their 11-man schedules to play filler 8-man games the number deter teams that have mightily struggled in the 11-man version with enrollments well over the 200 limit. Do I see it maybe changing in the near furture? Possibly but we need more of a bigger size of schools going to 8-man before that matter gets discussed. The amount of teams heading to 8-man next could start that talk but I rather keep it at 200 until it's time to debate it further.


I have heard that St Mary Central and Valley Christian agreed to a co-op in 8 man and then when the time came VC didn't send a single kid to play FB so their enrollments are combined for WIAA purposes but St Mary's gets nothing from VC except a larger enrollment.  
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boneman56
Michigan's cap is Class D, what makes it bad is they spilt the 32 teams into two divisions. Zero need for two eight man championships. 
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pippin
Quote:
I think you do have to guard against abuse, "well, we don't win in 11-man, so let's go beat up on smaller schools in 8-man and win a cheap state title.


This is where the problem comes in. 
 
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