dtshaw Show full post »
traviswilson
mickjagger wrote:
Or, stay with the current 5 divisions, keeping D-2 thru D-5 at 4 teams each, bumping up the # of D-1 teams to 8, and scheduling 2 lower division games for Thursday morning.

This would require four additional games, not two, meaning another day on Wednesday. It’s simply not going to happen. 
The Packers/Badgers/Brewers are like your children; you don't love them because they're good, you love them because they're yours.
10/22/2010 -- 598,210 pageviews for WSN
Follow me on Twitter: @travisWSN
Quote 0 0
traviswilson
db11 wrote:


So many coaches in the other divisions will be against that. It's not happening, as much as many casual fans may want it back.

4 divisions. 8 teams each. Figure out the deets later. That's where I think the sweet spot would be.

Again, this would require an additional day added to the state tournament or an additional location, and I don’t foresee either happening. 
The Packers/Badgers/Brewers are like your children; you don't love them because they're good, you love them because they're yours.
10/22/2010 -- 598,210 pageviews for WSN
Follow me on Twitter: @travisWSN
Quote 0 0
db11

Again, this would require an additional day added to the state tournament or an additional location, and I don’t foresee either happening. 


At what point does the WIAA stop being averse to that?
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
Quote 0 0
traviswilson
db11 wrote:


At what point does the WIAA stop being averse to that?

I guess the question is, what are the goals with a four-day, four-division, eight-qualifier tournament? Neighboring states including Iowa and Minnesota do it, and it isn't really going that well. Quarterfinals attendance is very low (24,000 in Minnesota for their 16 quarterfinal games in 2017-18). Minnesota's state tournament attendance pales in comparison to Wisconsin; they had a total state tournament attendance of 64,000 in 2017-18 with 40 total games, and that included consolation games (which drew less than 500 apiece). Iowa's six-day, 32-game behemoth draws less than 60k.

Wisconsin has anywhere from 80k-90k with just 15 games currently. There's something to be said for us doing things right here.
The Packers/Badgers/Brewers are like your children; you don't love them because they're good, you love them because they're yours.
10/22/2010 -- 598,210 pageviews for WSN
Follow me on Twitter: @travisWSN
Quote 0 0
db11
Is it about the fans or the kids though ultimately?

I just struggle with the idea that the current set-up is truly what's best for the State's 400+ programs, let alone your average junkie like me...not that they should ever kow-tow to that group of people.

I will tell you this. Five divisions remains wholly unnecessary...especially in light of the continued erosion of quality big-school programs. The "new" D2 was created as a "haven" for 900-1200 enrollment schools who were struggling to get results once they got to State. Fast forward nearly a decade and the bulk of top big-school programs reside either in D2 or relatively close to that cutline...a trend I don't necessarily see stopping with the way things are going. D1 shouldn't be an afterthought but it's certainly become that way.

I think the question of where the D1 cutline should be and whether or not five divisions are truly needed should be something staying on the table. As is are we truly getting the best representation of teams at State by only allowing 20 across five divisions?

And for all the whining there used to be about D1 getting eight teams, there's still a massive inequity of teams getting to State...large-school vs. small-school-wise. 
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
Quote 0 0
bne55
db11 wrote:
Is it about the fans or the kids though ultimately?

I just struggle with the idea that the current set-up is truly what's best for the State's 400+ programs, let alone your average junkie like me...not that they should ever kow-tow to that group of people.

I will tell you this. Five divisions remains wholly unnecessary...especially in light of the continued erosion of quality big-school programs. The "new" D2 was created as a "haven" for 900-1200 enrollment schools who were struggling to get results once they got to State. Fast forward nearly a decade and the bulk of top big-school programs reside either in D2 or relatively close to that cutline...a trend I don't necessarily see stopping with the way things are going. D1 shouldn't be an afterthought but it's certainly become that way.

I think the question of where the D1 cutline should be and whether or not five divisions are truly needed should be something staying on the table. As is are we truly getting the best representation of teams at State by only allowing 20 across five divisions?

And for all the whining there used to be about D1 getting eight teams, there's still a massive inequity of teams getting to State...large-school vs. small-school-wise. 


I also like to think either some change in the cut line or re drawing the Groupings is in store soon. We are starting to see representation from the same areas but different sectionals. And  I think this is a problem on both the Boys and Girls Side. I mean look at D2 this year Nicolet/Washington a whopping 8 Miles apart in the State Championship game, And then you are seeing first round regional games of teams up to 200+ Miles apart.  Would 1150 or 1100 be the proper cut off for D1? But with lowering the D1 cutline would that mean you lower D2 from 600 to 550 or 500? 
2016 Derek Lendosky Poster of the year
@brent_erdmann
Quote 0 0
blade12
bne55 wrote:


I also like to think either some change in the cut line or re drawing the Groupings is in store soon. We are starting to see representation from the same areas but different sectionals. And  I think this is a problem on both the Boys and Girls Side. I mean look at D2 this year Nicolet/Washington a whopping 8 Miles apart in the State Championship game, And then you are seeing first round regional games of teams up to 200+ Miles apart.  Would 1150 or 1100 be the proper cut off for D1? But with lowering the D1 cutline would that mean you lower D2 from 600 to 550 or 500? 


With about 500 total schools I'd simply try to even out all divisions with about 96 in each of 5 divisions or 128 in each of 4 divisions. I think it's laughable that "we want 8 D1 schools at State" when there are only like 70 D1 schools with 5 divisions now. Let's just give them all a participation ribbon.

I'd also work to create more fanfare around the finals of each sectional and if any region of the state can find a willing host to put those games in 1 location over 1-2-3 days, good for them and if the other areas of the state can't find that partner then too bad, you're missing out.
Quote 0 0
gstacy
D1 schools only have to win 2 games to get to state?
Quote 0 0
blade12
gstacy wrote:
D1 schools only have to win 2 games to get to state?


No, as it is right now they have to win 4. If they go back to 8 D1 teams at State they would only have to win 3.
Quote 0 0
photoguy92
6 divisions 4 teams each would work in the current time frame.  Whether that would be Divisions 1-6 or Divisions 1-4 and Big  and Small school private classes could be debatable.  Always thought it would be cool if the teams that lost in round 1 could play each other at say the fieldhouse for 3rd and 4th place
Quote 0 0
wissportsnet

Boys Basketball Alumni Round-up: February 21st, from @ColtonWilson23 #wisbb -- https://t.co/0K6CZzZWpf https://t.co/715tfpBGVS

wissportsnet

WSN15: Boys Basketball Top Teams #12 -- Two NCAA Division I players at one WIAA Division 4 school = state champions… https://t.co/1MThqzce9L

wissportsnet

Predicting winners of every state wrestling title plus a look By The Numbers, from @Nate_Woelfel -… https://t.co/HgU1bLP7d6

wissportsnet

Join the free Boys Basketball Playoff Pick 'Em Contest; Staff picks coming Tuesday #wisbb -- https://t.co/Y6yTA3OgP8 https://t.co/hA6Uyw9uje