mickjagger
#10 - #15 Wisconsin (4-1, 2-0) at  #12 - #13 Michigan (5-1, 3-0) 

Saturday, October 13, 2018

Michigan Stadium (The Big House), Ann Arbor, MI

Kickoff:  6:30 p.m. CDT

Television:  ABC-TV

Spread:  Wolverines Favored by 7 Points


On Wisconsin !
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
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mickjagger
mickjagger wrote:
#10 - #15 Wisconsin (4-1, 2-0) at  #12 - #13 Michigan (5-1, 3-0) 

Saturday, October 13, 2018

Michigan Stadium (The Big House), Ann Arbor, MI

Kickoff:  6:30 p.m. CDT

Television:  ABC-TV

Spread:  Wolverines Favored by 7 Points


On Wisconsin !
Badgers Injury Update:

"Four potential starters — defensive end Isaiahh Loudermilk (left leg), cornerbacks Deron Harrell (head) and Caesar Williams (left leg) and outside linebacker Andrew Van Ginkel (right leg) — are listed as questionable for Saturday's game against the Wolverines, while a fifth, safety Scott Nelson, will miss the first half after being ejected for targeting in the third quarter against the Cornhuskers. Van Ginkel will play but could remain in a limited role.

The Badgers' biggest worry may be in the secondary, where they have two more starters, safety D'Cota Dixon (right leg) and Faion Hicks (right thumb), who are fully expected to play but may not be 100 percent.

UW coach Paul Chryst said Monday that Eric Burrell will start in place of Nelson. The sophomore safety's played in 19 games over his career but never started.

If Williams and Harrell can't go, true freshman Rachad Wildgoose could be relied upon as a major contributor in his first career action on the road - something he said he feels mentally ready for."

- Wisconsin State Journal

Full Story
https://madison.com/wsj/sports/college/football/badgers-defense-banged-up-heading-into-big-game-at-michigan/article_76e46d1f-ace1-5d9c-876b-bc58e34fb030.html#utm_source=madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Femail%2Fsports%2F&utm_medium=email&utm_content=5D559092085BC880050104111A26A8920ACCC4B8

Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
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safetysqueezepleezzee11
mickjagger wrote:
Badgers Injury Update:

"Four potential starters — defensive end Isaiahh Loudermilk (left leg), cornerbacks Deron Harrell (head) and Caesar Williams (left leg) and outside linebacker Andrew Van Ginkel (right leg) — are listed as questionable for Saturday's game against the Wolverines, while a fifth, safety Scott Nelson, will miss the first half after being ejected for targeting in the third quarter against the Cornhuskers. Van Ginkel will play but could remain in a limited role.

The Badgers' biggest worry may be in the secondary, where they have two more starters, safety D'Cota Dixon (right leg) and Faion Hicks (right thumb), who are fully expected to play but may not be 100 percent.

UW coach Paul Chryst said Monday that Eric Burrell will start in place of Nelson. The sophomore safety's played in 19 games over his career but never started.

If Williams and Harrell can't go, true freshman Rachad Wildgoose could be relied upon as a major contributor in his first career action on the road - something he said he feels mentally ready for."

- Wisconsin State Journal

Full Story
https://madison.com/wsj/sports/college/football/badgers-defense-banged-up-heading-into-big-game-at-michigan/article_76e46d1f-ace1-5d9c-876b-bc58e34fb030.html#utm_source=madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Femail%2Fsports%2F&utm_medium=email&utm_content=5D559092085BC880050104111A26A8920ACCC4B8   



First game I see the Badgers losing(going in) since the Ohio State Big 10 championship game where they got slaughtered. Just dont see how Bucky's defense can hold Michigan's passing game down. Going into every other game since that Ohio State Championship game(2014), I felt Bucky could win. Just dont think Bucky has the 'horses' to beat Michigan at Michigan in this one. Injuries and some poor play all season(in some areas) tells me Bucky gets beat. Michigan is a pretty damn good team - great defense and that QB is getting better each game. The game may end up close in score, but I think Michigan will spank Bucky in this one.
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db11
I've been surprised before, but other than if the Badgers offense dominates the clock and finishes almost all of their drives, I don't see a UW win here.
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thecrackerjack
db11 wrote:
I've been surprised before, but other than if the Badgers offense dominates the clock and finishes almost all of their drives, I don't see a UW win here.


Those are my sentiments as well. UW seems like they are on there 6th or 7th corner at this point, and they can't rush the passer. Not a recipe for success...
Fear of the unknown is the greatest fear of all.
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@miedent 
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elsmith4
I think the Badgers offense has a better chance to play really good this game compared to others in spite of Michigan traditionally having a great defense.  3 interior lineman are banged up and that is normally their strength.  This needs to be a statement game for JT, and especially Hornibrook.  Hornibrook should still utilize Fergy and AJ Taylor over the middle, but he's gotta use those quick out routes/hitches to Pryor/Davis to open up the offense.  I think this could be a game where we are really pleased with the offense, even if we lose.  

On the other hand, our defense has so many holes and so many guys are injured that I don't see us getting many stops against UM, if at all.  The most disappointing injury this far is Van Ginkel, because he was supposed to be one of our biggest playmakers this year and he hasn't done anything.  It's not his fault either.  I have a feeling his injury is one that is going to be "there" for the rest of the season and he won't be fully healthy until the bowl game.  Donovan Peoples Jones is going to absolutely destroy Hicks, and Nico Collins is going to pose as a huge mismatch to the other corner, whoever it may be.  Can't forget about 6'8" TE Zack Gentry either.  

I see this game being something like 27-34 with Michigan winning, but I hope I'm wrong.
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dawgstyle
elsmith4 wrote:
I think the Badgers offense has a better chance to play really good this game compared to others in spite of Michigan traditionally having a great defense.  3 interior lineman are banged up and that is normally their strength.  This needs to be a statement game for JT, and especially Hornibrook.  Hornibrook should still utilize Fergy and AJ Taylor over the middle, but he's gotta use those quick out routes/hitches to Pryor/Davis to open up the offense.  I think this could be a game where we are really pleased with the offense, even if we lose.  

On the other hand, our defense has so many holes and so many guys are injured that I don't see us getting many stops against UM, if at all.  The most disappointing injury this far is Van Ginkel, because he was supposed to be one of our biggest playmakers this year and he hasn't done anything.  It's not his fault either.  I have a feeling his injury is one that is going to be "there" for the rest of the season and he won't be fully healthy until the bowl game.  Donovan Peoples Jones is going to absolutely destroy Hicks, and Nico Collins is going to pose as a huge mismatch to the other corner, whoever it may be.  Can't forget about 6'8" TE Zack Gentry either.  

I see this game being something like 27-34 with Michigan winning, but I hope I'm wrong.


I don't know that I would say that the interior line is normally the strength.  The last 2 years I would say that is the ends and Devin Bush at LB.  Mo Hurst was amazing last year, while this years group was a bit more underwhelming.  Dwumfour did start to look good and did go down with an injury last week.  But I would say that the defense this week is the same as previous weeks regardless of the injuries to the interior line.  Gary is still injured and that will make a much bigger difference, though Paye has looked solid in his place.

I am mostly excited to see if the defense is everything it appears to be against a very solid OL in WI.  I'm pretty sure I saw a tweet that said PFF ranks WI OL #2 in the country.  

Based on injuries and what not, I would think that Michigan wins this and covers the 8.5 spread.  But seeing as how things have gone for Michigan over the last 10ish years, I would be surprised to see them lose.  
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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mickjagger
Paul Chryst becomes the 2nd coach/manager from the state of Wisconsin to be out-coached/out-managed today/tonight !

Chryst's play-calling, his 3rd/4th down decisions and his overall offensive scheme/strategy was questionable, at best, and at times down-right horrible.

On the defensive side of the ball, every opponent since the BYU loss has obviously viewed the tape from that game and have discovered that one way to beat Bucky's defense is to attack the edges.

Worst performance by UW quarterback Alex Hornibrook  in his career up to now, other than perhaps his performance in Ann Arbor his freshmen season.

I thought this was going to be a break-out season for Hornibrook.  While he has shown flashes, he has not noticeably improved.  In fact, at times, he appears to have regressed.  He seems less confident & more unsure of his throws than he did at times last season.  He continues to struggle in the pocket ... he's developed "happy feet" and his decision-making in the face of pressure/pass rush is hurried & panicky.  
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
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elsmith4
You could tell Herbstreit and Fowler were utterly disappointed and somewhat annoyed at the fact they had to call another UW game where Hornibrook was the starter. PC just doesn't trust him at all - he can't call certain route concepts that other coaches can because AH doesn't have the ability to make those throws.    All abilities of Hornibrook (or lack therof) aside, and Hornibrook has shown no improvement in three years with his pocket presence.  I have yet to understand this dynamic between PC and Hornibrook.  Is Coan really that bad?  UWs lack of good QB play since 2011 is REALLY wearing on me.  

Who actually calls the plays, is it Rudolph or Chryst?

Also, the only two times I've seen a penalty called where the long snapper was "roughed" was when Wisconsin played Michigan at the Big House. 

On a brighter note, we have to realize that Wisconsin is just not a very good team this year.  Sure, the B1G west is still up for grabs, but at this point we should just hope for the defense to grow and to get guys meaningful snaps.  Wildgoose, Pearson, and Burrell all shows flashes tonight.  Edwards and Connely were able to make big tackles. A pass-rush actually existed.  

Additionally, lets keep pulling for Jonathon Taylor to have a monster year.  Kid deserves it.  

Graham Mertz can't come soon enough.
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mickjagger
elsmith4 wrote:
On a brighter note, we have to realize that Wisconsin is just not a very good team this year.  Sure, the B1G west is still up for grabs, but at this point we should just hope for the defense to grow and to get guys meaningful snaps.  Wildgoose, Pearson, and Burrell all shows flashes tonight.  Edwards and Connely were able to make big tackles. A pass-rush actually existed.
I, too, thought Reggie Pearson & Eric Burrell impressed at the safety spots.  With D'Cota Dixon in his final season, it was encouraging to see another strong safety (Pearson) making plays.  If Scott Nelson continues his inconsistent play of late, I have no problem with Burrell subbing for him.  Burrell led the Badgers in tackles Saturday night with 11.  I believe these young corners are eventually going to be a strength of the defense down the road.  Faion Hicks, Madison Cone, Caesar Williams, Rachad Wildgoose, Deron Harrell & Donte Burton have played well at times and will only get better with more reps & experience.  They appear to have some natural talent & instincts for the position.

With all the injuries at cornerback this season, resulting in numerous opportunities to get on the field, one has to wonder if Dontye Carrierre-Williams is having any 2nd thoughts about his knee-jerk decision to leave the program ?
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
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mickjagger
Michigan beat Wisconsin at its own game.

1st Downs:  W-11 ... M-21
Passing Yards:  W-100 ... M-124
Rushing Yards:  W-183 ... M-320
Total Yards:  W-283 ... M-444
3rd Downs:  W-2/11 ... M-7/16
4th Downs:  W-1-1 ... M-0-0
Time of Possession:  W-22:59 ... M-37:01

Jonathon Taylor:  17 carries, 101 yards, 5.9 avg.
Alex Hornibrook:  7 of 20 passing, 100 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT's

Game Recap:
https://uwbadgers.com/news/2018/10/13/football-badgers-fall-to-wolverines-38-13.aspx

Box Score, Individual & Team Stats:
https://uwbadgers.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=8302
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
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elsmith4
As much as I love Paul Chryst, sometimes I wonder why Hornibrook is never held accountable for his play.  He held Bart Houston accountable when Bart Houston waited 4 years to see the field.  Yes Bart Houston made a lot of boneheaded mistakes, but his gutsty runs, strong arm, and overall higher ability to make plays made him a better candidate, in my eyes, to play that season.  The game Houston beat Illinois in favor of a injured Stave was a breath of fresh air.  Stave has caused similar frustrations that Hornibrook has for Badger fans.    Chryst had no problem holding him accountable and benching him for a Freshman in Hornibrook.  

When Jonathon Taylor has had fumbling problems, Chryst has benched him, albeit for a short while.  

When the DBs aren't performing in camp, Chryst and Leonhard publicly call out the players which could have been a factor in players leaving the program.  

Chris James, a senior running back who came to UW BECAUSE of PC has been benched almost all season.  I get that Deal and Groshek might be the better rbs.. but it makes you wonder.


I get Hornibrook is a good leader, knows the offense, and does a good job coming back from the several mistakes he makes every game.  However, he has no more upside.  He can't get bigger/faster/stronger.  He's shown his pocket presence hasn't really improved.  He's shown he still panics and throws easy picks to other teams.  I've never seen a QB with a frame like him be so uncoordinated/unathletic, and have such a noodle arm.  

If Hornibrook has another game like this, we can't get much worse by playing the backup QB.  We don't game-plan to let the QB win, anyways.  

Paul Chryst is not playing to win games, and it's been like that all season.
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safetysqueezepleezzee11
elsmith4 wrote:
As much as I love Paul Chryst, sometimes I wonder why Hornibrook is never held accountable for his play.  He held Bart Houston accountable when Bart Houston waited 4 years to see the field.  Yes Bart Houston made a lot of boneheaded mistakes, but his gutsty runs, strong arm, and overall higher ability to make plays made him a better candidate, in my eyes, to play that season.  The game Houston beat Illinois in favor of a injured Stave was a breath of fresh air.  Stave has caused similar frustrations that Hornibrook has for Badger fans.    Chryst had no problem holding him accountable and benching him for a Freshman in Hornibrook.  

When Jonathon Taylor has had fumbling problems, Chryst has benched him, albeit for a short while.  

When the DBs aren't performing in camp, Chryst and Leonhard publicly call out the players which could have been a factor in players leaving the program.  

Chris James, a senior running back who came to UW BECAUSE of PC has been benched almost all season.  I get that Deal and Groshek might be the better rbs.. but it makes you wonder.


I get Hornibrook is a good leader, knows the offense, and does a good job coming back from the several mistakes he makes every game.  However, he has no more upside.  He can't get bigger/faster/stronger.  He's shown his pocket presence hasn't really improved.  He's shown he still panics and throws easy picks to other teams.  I've never seen a QB with a frame like him be so uncoordinated/unathletic, and have such a noodle arm.  

If Hornibrook has another game like this, we can't get much worse by playing the backup QB.  We don't game-plan to let the QB win, anyways.  

Paul Chryst is not playing to win games, and it's been like that all season.


I never saw Hornibrook as the great savior as many did, but yesterday I finally realized Hornibrook is simply NOT a good-great athlete. One doesnt need to be a great athlete to be a good QB in the college game, but good god!   Hornibrook looked like a scared high school frosh at times yesterday. I didnt think Bucky would win the game - I didnt see them getting embarrassed. The O-line is incredibly over-rated and the overall defensive speed, adjustment and tackling are poor. I put alot of that on losing 7 starters off a great defense and some injury problems, but the defensive scheme this year simply doesnt fit the players. Hornibrook will join another long line of average to a bit above average QB's.  Take all his stats and 'love them'. Winning games and making big plays is what I want in a QB. Badger offense seems to have 3 things they are concerned with going into every year 1. Having ONE running back gain alot of yards rather than having many good running backs  2. padding the QB stats as much as possible  3. Having a bunch of huge o-linemen that 'at times' develop into great players. This year there isnt a single O-lineman that has played GREAT. Not one!  "Best o-line in the country" - that is just laughable. Perhaps the biggest.

What is the deal with Chryst throwing the ball on first down against the 'puppies' they play, but he wont do it against Michigan? The offensive game plan absolutely stunk! The drove the ball one drive the entire game(late in the 2nd half against probably backups - WHOOPEE!).

I always hate it when Bucky is pumped and vaunted going INTO a season. They just never live up to it.


Good leaders at QB dont continue to make the stupid plays Hornibrook makes as a redshirt junior that has basically been starting since he arrived. Reshirted as a frosh, then has basically been the starter since. I saw some growth and improvement last year - this year looks like regression to me.
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cgrade23
Plain and simple...this team was way over hyped and it is not a very good team.  I would personally like to see Danny Vanden Boom play...it's my inherit FVA bias, but I saw him play when he was at Kimberly and man can he throw.  Good leader and a tough kid.  
"If I had nine of my fingers missing I wouldn't type any slower." ~ Mitch Hedberg
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oldballcoach1
I look at this team and there is something missing.  It is hard to pin point for me.  First off, Hornibrook is not athletic and is not a threat to pull the ball down and hurt teams with his feet.  For me, that is a huge missing piece to this offense.  And, his arm strength seems to have fallen off and is locking onto his receivers early in their routes.  With all of that being said, he is going to play the rest of the year and will be the starter for this team the remainder of the year.  But, next year, we will see the insertion of a more athletic QB that can make some plays with their feet.  

The OL appears to be really good individually, but seem to lack the cohesion as a unit.  I don't understand that at all. There should not be all of the breakdowns in pass protection and early pressure.  Last night was a great chance to lean on them and have them control the game, but it didn't happen.  

On defense, the lack of pressure off of the edge is very evident.  We have been spoiled with the riches of talent there the past seasons and that is missing now.  Those guys set the edges and didn't let anything outside of them - unlike last night and for the most part, this season.  The secondary is in rebuild mode and has talent, just not ready to play yet.  The only way to get a pass rush is to bring extra guys and then that exposes the secondary.

And, the standard game plan was pretty evident last night and it worked early.  Bend and don't break defense and run the ball.   But defensive breakdowns and lack of any offensive threat to the Michigan secondary allowed things to get away.  

The bottom line - this team will probably win the division and then face Ohio St. in the Big 10 Championship game.  As much as it hurts to say this, that game could be much more ugly than last night.  I would also expect a long night in Penn St. in a few weeks and a battle at Evanston with Northwestern.  And Purdue can score.  I have a feeling this won't be the last time we are scratching our heads on a Sunday morning wondering about what is going on in Madison.  
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