mickjagger
The Lumberjacks (competitive concerns) and the Blue Jays (enrollment concerns) want out.

If their requests to join the Great Northern Conference are approved by the WIAA, the WVC would be left with 5 teams, Marshfield, SPASH, DC Everest, Wausau West and Wisconsin Rapids. In all likelihood, those schools would have to join the Fox Valley Association to the east or the Big Rivers Conference to the west. The WVC and the FVA already compete together as the Valley Football Association.

Should they join the Great Northern Conference, Wausau East (1136 enrollment) and Merrill (947 enrollment) would be the largest schools in the conference. The current GNC schools have enrollments ranging from 446 to 880.

If approved, the realignment would go into effect in the fall of 2017.

Full Story:
http://www.marshfieldnewsherald.com/story/sports/high-school/2014/09/10/wausau-east-merrill-petition-leave-wvc/15429003/
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
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blugold94
They may want this to happen, but it won't. The remaining WVC schools plus either the conference to the west or the east that is asked to join up with the remaining schools won't like it. Just look at the FVA and the continuing dislike of the VFA? Plus, the Wausau School District wants everything at East and West to be as close to equal as possible. This would be a major change to that. I imagine it would lead to a lot of open enrollment situations if it did happen.

I imagine Merrill and East sees Antigo doing well and putting up banners in the GNC in a number of sports and wants some of that.
@ChadHolmesWI
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db11
With the VFA existing for football...why not just combine the GNC and WVC for other sports and split them into large and small divisions?
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blugold94
db11 wrote:
With the VFA existing for football...why not just combine the GNC and WVC for other sports and split them into large and small divisions?


Because about 2/3 of the schools would want to be in the "small" division. East and Merrill would be in the large and we'd have what we have now.
@ChadHolmesWI
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traviswilson
db11 wrote:
With the VFA existing for football...why not just combine the GNC and WVC for other sports and split them into large and small divisions?

Because Merrill and East would still have to play Point, DCE, Rapids, etc. twice in most sports then. And Pines would have to play Point, DCE, Rapids, etc. once as a conference game, which I would think they'd strongly object to. I don't think a large and small accomplishes much in this particular situation.
The Packers/Badgers/Brewers are like your children; you don't love them because they're good, you love them because they're yours.
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importfromil
blugold94 wrote:
db11 wrote:
With the VFA existing for football...why not just combine the GNC and WVC for other sports and split them into large and small divisions?


Because about 2/3 of the schools would want to be in the "small" division. East and Merrill would be in the large and we'd have what we have now.

This. There's a reason Rhinelander, Antigo and Merrill (Tomahawk too? I can't recall if they were in or not) all wanted out of the WVC in the first place; there's no reason to suspect they'd be fine with re-joining any grouping where they have to regularly play schools 2-3x their size.
I'm not saying some things the WIAA does are wrong, ... I'm just saying, "I find it weird."
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db11
blugold94 wrote:
db11 wrote:
With the VFA existing for football...why not just combine the GNC and WVC for other sports and split them into large and small divisions?


Because about 2/3 of the schools would want to be in the "small" division. East and Merrill would be in the large and we'd have what we have now.



traviswilson wrote:
db11 wrote:
With the VFA existing for football...why not just combine the GNC and WVC for other sports and split them into large and small divisions?

Because Merrill and East would still have to play Point, DCE, Rapids, etc. twice in most sports then. And Pines would have to play Point, DCE, Rapids, etc. once as a conference game, which I would think they'd strongly object to. I don't think a large and small accomplishes much in this particular situation.


Merrill is in limbo, sure, being split between the two and the GNC is the softer landing spot.

But honestly, is it those other sports that are heavily driving this move for Wausau East? Schools don't re-align because of track or wrestling. Football is king as a driver of realignment (See Northland Pines, Merrill, etc.). East wants out of the VFA (and maybe the rest of the WVC the way they are getting handled) is what I'm seeing.

Take my idea and "promote/relegate" schools between the divisions based on athletic performance on a yearly basis. Not sure what else you can really change other than disband and join conferences that will increase your travel times at least twice-fold.

The unfortunate reality of what's happening in Central Wisconsin means you're never gonna find a solution for placing the big schools in a situation that's anything more than "tenuous" for at least half the WVC members.
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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db11
importfromil wrote:
blugold94 wrote:
db11 wrote:
With the VFA existing for football...why not just combine the GNC and WVC for other sports and split them into large and small divisions?


Because about 2/3 of the schools would want to be in the "small" division. East and Merrill would be in the large and we'd have what we have now.

This. There's a reason Rhinelander, Antigo and Merrill (Tomahawk too? I can't recall if they were in or not) all wanted out of the WVC in the first place; there's no reason to suspect they'd be fine with re-joining any grouping where they have to regularly play schools 2-3x their size.


Tomahawk left the GNC and joined the Marawood, where they've struggled with schools half their size nearly across the board.

Rhinelander and Antigo now routinely play schools they have a distinct enrollment advantage over, and they've hardly established any sort of real dominance.

There is no happy, be-all, end-all solution, but at least combining the two conferences in everything but football means the schools in limbo will get a decent chunk of games vs. schools similar in enrollment...or quite smaller.
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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blade12
From the article: "Bonnell said. "It's a great conference. But it's something we're thinking about for our student body, for the kids. We're not thinking of becoming a powerhouse. We're just looking for an even playing field."

I think I know why the school can't find success.

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blade12
db11 wrote:
importfromil wrote:
blugold94 wrote:
db11 wrote:
With the VFA existing for football...why not just combine the GNC and WVC for other sports and split them into large and small divisions?


Because about 2/3 of the schools would want to be in the "small" division. East and Merrill would be in the large and we'd have what we have now.

This. There's a reason Rhinelander, Antigo and Merrill (Tomahawk too? I can't recall if they were in or not) all wanted out of the WVC in the first place; there's no reason to suspect they'd be fine with re-joining any grouping where they have to regularly play schools 2-3x their size.


Tomahawk left the GNC and joined the Marawood, where they've struggled with schools half their size nearly across the board.

Rhinelander and Antigo now routinely play schools they have a distinct enrollment advantage over, and they've hardly established any sort of real dominance.

There is no happy, be-all, end-all solution, but at least combining the two conferences in everything but football means the schools in limbo will get a decent chunk of games vs. schools similar in enrollment...or quite smaller.


I have said this throughout the WVC/FVA merger stuff. Why don't some of these large schools do what West Bend does and split kids into 2 schools? 1 brick and mortar school just 2 sets of athletic teams when needed. Twice as many teams and twice as many athletic opportunities for kids.

I think I know the answer, the large schools would rather have twice as many kids to choose from and build 1 powerhouse team rather than split them into 2 and just be OK.

You could split
DCE into 2 schools of 835 each
SPASH into 2 schools of 1107
Rapids into 2 schools of 847

Adding the 3 new schools to the WVC instantly gives you a 10 team conference and 9 conference FB games. Smallest enrollment would be the now 2 DCE schools at 835 - largest would be Wausau West at 1383.

It's not perfect and I can hear the complaints about why SPASH has to split but Marshfield doesn't but if you don't want to disband your conference, disrupt others (FVA or GNC), have lopsided issues (SPASH 2214 vs Wausau East 1056), and if you are truly about giving HS athletic opportunities this is a viable possibility. Not to mention you instantly create a ton of community involvement, support and "friendly" rivalries.

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blugold94
blade12 wrote:
db11 wrote:
importfromil wrote:
blugold94 wrote:
db11 wrote:
With the VFA existing for football...why not just combine the GNC and WVC for other sports and split them into large and small divisions?


Because about 2/3 of the schools would want to be in the "small" division. East and Merrill would be in the large and we'd have what we have now.

This. There's a reason Rhinelander, Antigo and Merrill (Tomahawk too? I can't recall if they were in or not) all wanted out of the WVC in the first place; there's no reason to suspect they'd be fine with re-joining any grouping where they have to regularly play schools 2-3x their size.


Tomahawk left the GNC and joined the Marawood, where they've struggled with schools half their size nearly across the board.

Rhinelander and Antigo now routinely play schools they have a distinct enrollment advantage over, and they've hardly established any sort of real dominance.

There is no happy, be-all, end-all solution, but at least combining the two conferences in everything but football means the schools in limbo will get a decent chunk of games vs. schools similar in enrollment...or quite smaller.


I have said this throughout the WVC/FVA merger stuff. Why don't some of these large schools do what West Bend does and split kids into 2 schools? 1 brick and mortar school just 2 sets of athletic teams when needed. Twice as many teams and twice as many athletic opportunities for kids.

I think I know the answer, the large schools would rather have twice as many kids to choose from and build 1 powerhouse team rather than split them into 2 and just be OK.

You could split
DCE into 2 schools of 835 each
SPASH into 2 schools of 1107
Rapids into 2 schools of 847

Adding the 3 new schools to the WVC instantly gives you a 10 team conference and 9 conference FB games. Smallest enrollment would be the now 2 DCE schools at 835 - largest would be Wausau West at 1383.

It's not perfect and I can hear the complaints about why SPASH has to split but Marshfield doesn't but if you don't want to disband your conference, disrupt others (FVA or GNC), have lopsided issues (SPASH 2214 vs Wausau East 1056), and if you are truly about giving HS athletic opportunities this is a viable possibility. Not to mention you instantly create a ton of community involvement, support and "friendly" rivalries.



Because you don't build new schools based on what's good for your athletic department.
@ChadHolmesWI
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formerwiacbaseballer
blugold94 wrote:
blade12 wrote:
db11 wrote:
importfromil wrote:
blugold94 wrote:
db11 wrote:
With the VFA existing for football...why not just combine the GNC and WVC for other sports and split them into large and small divisions?


Because about 2/3 of the schools would want to be in the "small" division. East and Merrill would be in the large and we'd have what we have now.

This. There's a reason Rhinelander, Antigo and Merrill (Tomahawk too? I can't recall if they were in or not) all wanted out of the WVC in the first place; there's no reason to suspect they'd be fine with re-joining any grouping where they have to regularly play schools 2-3x their size.


Tomahawk left the GNC and joined the Marawood, where they've struggled with schools half their size nearly across the board.

Rhinelander and Antigo now routinely play schools they have a distinct enrollment advantage over, and they've hardly established any sort of real dominance.

There is no happy, be-all, end-all solution, but at least combining the two conferences in everything but football means the schools in limbo will get a decent chunk of games vs. schools similar in enrollment...or quite smaller.


I have said this throughout the WVC/FVA merger stuff. Why don't some of these large schools do what West Bend does and split kids into 2 schools? 1 brick and mortar school just 2 sets of athletic teams when needed. Twice as many teams and twice as many athletic opportunities for kids.

I think I know the answer, the large schools would rather have twice as many kids to choose from and build 1 powerhouse team rather than split them into 2 and just be OK.

You could split
DCE into 2 schools of 835 each
SPASH into 2 schools of 1107
Rapids into 2 schools of 847

Adding the 3 new schools to the WVC instantly gives you a 10 team conference and 9 conference FB games. Smallest enrollment would be the now 2 DCE schools at 835 - largest would be Wausau West at 1383.

It's not perfect and I can hear the complaints about why SPASH has to split but Marshfield doesn't but if you don't want to disband your conference, disrupt others (FVA or GNC), have lopsided issues (SPASH 2214 vs Wausau East 1056), and if you are truly about giving HS athletic opportunities this is a viable possibility. Not to mention you instantly create a ton of community involvement, support and "friendly" rivalries.

Because you don't build new schools based on what's good for your athletic department.

Blade's example of West Bend, houses two "teams" in one school... West Bend East and West Bend West
"Let's Play Two!!!"

Baseball is not a game that builds character, it is a game that reveals it.

"There are three types of baseball players: those who make things happen, those who watch it happen, and those who wonder what happened."
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blade12
I am not an expert on all the details of the West Bend situation and example but it works something like this:

All of the kids go to the same school building. In the classroom kids from WBE and WBW are mixed. The oldest sibling in the family is designated as East or West based on the day of birth (even or odd). I am not sure which school is even and which one odd. All younger siblings follow the oldest one so that all kids in the same family will be assigned to the same school.

I am not sure how they handle prom or homecoming or many other things but for sports they essentially take a total school enrollment of 2200 and divide it into East and West and field 2 HS teams each drawing from about 1100 students.

I have to believe the WIAA and many parents and players like the additional opportunities this situation creates for athletes and am not sure why or if the WIAA considers or proposes this as an option in some of these recent conference changes (namely the WVC/FVA merger that in the eyes of many broke up a very strong and functional conference in the FVA).

I am sure there are some additional cost in fielding 2 sets of teams and I am sure headaches too.
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traviswilson
West Bend is talking about consolidating their teams into one because they've struggled to be competitive in some sports and it would be significant cost savings.

If the WIAA proposed schools split their athletic teams and create twice the costs, there would be calls for their heads. But, it would never happen anyways, so a moot point.
The Packers/Badgers/Brewers are like your children; you don't love them because they're good, you love them because they're yours.
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whfan202
Then if they do that, what's the hitch in combining both schools altogether? Never could wrap my head around that concept.
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