gstacy
After Beaver Dam who are the next 4-5 top teams in the state?
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mpzjames
I’d say Mukwonago, Milwaukee King, Aquinas, Marshall, Black Hawk, and Melrose-Mindoro in that order.
Just found out there was a forum section at WSN...

Twitter: @mpzflame
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db11
mpzjames wrote:
I’d say Mukwonago, Milwaukee King, Aquinas, Marshall, Black Hawk, and Melrose-Mindoro in that order.


Came here to say this.
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mickjagger
mpzjames wrote:
I’d say Mukwonago, Milwaukee King, Aquinas, Marshall, Black Hawk, and Melrose-Mindoro in that order.
All I'm going to say is  "Really ?"
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
Quote 1 0
mickjagger
gstacy wrote:
After Beaver Dam who are the next 4-5 top teams in the state?
I'd rank the top 6 prep girls hoops teams in the state as follows:

1.  D-2 Beaver Dam  (25-1)
2.  D-1 Mukwonago  (24-1)
3.  D-1 Milwaukee King  (21-4)
4.  D-1 Bay Port  (25-1)
5.  D-4 LaCrosse Aquinas  (25-1)
6.  D-1 Kimberly  (23-3)
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
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db11
mickjagger wrote:
All I'm going to say is  "Really ?"


It's entirely possible.

The gap between top teams in the lower divisions and upper divisions is often much smaller in girls' basketball. The Marshall's, Aquinas' and Black Hawks of the world are much closer to being on equal footing with D1/D2 than I think a lot of people realize.
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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mickjagger
db11 wrote:


It's entirely possible.

The gap between top teams in the lower divisions and upper divisions is often much smaller in girls' basketball. The Marshall's, Aquinas' and Black Hawks of the world are much closer to being on equal footing with D1/D2 than I think a lot of people realize.
Your overall point is well-taken, Dan. 

However, Black Hawk, Marshall & Melrose-Mindoro are not top-6 teams in the state (per MPZJames), regardless of division. Undefeated D-3 Laconia (26-0), from the always tough Flyway Conference, is another excellent, lower-division team.

I'll stick with my top 6, with no apologies:

1.  D-2 Beaver Dam  (25-1)
2.  D-1 Mukwonago  (24-1)
3.  D-1 Milwaukee King  (21-4)
4.  D-1 Bay Port  (25-1)
5.  D-4 LaCrosse Aquinas  (25-1)
6.  D-1 Kimberly  (23-3)
Wisconsin Sports Network Hall of Fame Inductee, 2012
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Marc Ole
mickjagger wrote:
Your overall point is well-taken, Dan. 

However, Black Hawk, Marshall & Melrose-Mindoro are not top-6 teams in the state (per MPZJames), regardless of division. Undefeated D-3 Laconia (26-0), from the always tough Flyway Conference, is another excellent, lower-division team.

I'll stick with my top 6, with no apologies:

1.  D-2 Beaver Dam  (25-1)
2.  D-1 Mukwonago  (24-1)
3.  D-1 Milwaukee King  (21-4)
4.  D-1 Bay Port  (25-1)
5.  D-4 LaCrosse Aquinas  (25-1)
6.  D-1 Kimberly  (23-3)


There are better smaller school then your top 6 schools.

To compare apples to apples where some of the top teams got a chance to play each other, this last summer pre-season at the 2018 Wisconsin Varsity Invitational your ranked #6 D-1  Kimberly enrollment 1589 students was beat by D-5 Black Hawk school enrollment 99 students; score 58 Black Hawk - 48 Kimberly.

https://admin.tourneymachine.com/Public/Results/Division.aspx?IDTournament=h20180529150712798204059e1a38740&IDDivision=h2018052915143688609575df683e345

Black Hawk went on winning the next game in the tournament to advance to the championship game against Beaver Dam.  Black Hawk eventually lost 49-67 to beaver Dam, but for the first 8 minutes of the championship game Black Hawk was winning.  As a side note Beaver Dam was missing one of their starters for this tournament but because of their great depth it really did not hurt them at all.

If it was not for this Wisconsin Varsity Invitational tournament Black Hawk would never had received the  chance to play the schools they did: New Berlin Eisenhower, Kimberly, Appleton West and Beaver Dam; all having much larger enrollments.  These bigger enrollment schools usually have nothing to gain playing the little schools.  If the big schools win they receive no recognition for beating a smaller school because it was perceived that the bigger school should have won the contest before the game even started.  If the small school wins the big school gets downgraded no matter how good the competition was that they competed against.   It’s basically a no win situation for the big schools when playing the smaller schools.

Because of this perceived outlook it is very hard for smaller schools to schedule competition against the bigger schools.  For the most part big schools will not schedule games with smaller schools that have a chance of beating the bigger schools.

In my opinion this is why when the question is ask to list the top teams in state the smaller schools usually fall short of this list and are not mentioned.  They never get a chance to compete against each other.

Quote 1 0
blade12
Marc Ole wrote:


There are better smaller school then your top 6 schools.

To compare apples to apples where some of the top teams got a chance to play each other, this last summer pre-season at the 2018 Wisconsin Varsity Invitational your ranked #6 D-1  Kimberly enrollment 1589 students was beat by D-5 Black Hawk school enrollment 99 students; score 58 Black Hawk - 48 Kimberly.

https://admin.tourneymachine.com/Public/Results/Division.aspx?IDTournament=h20180529150712798204059e1a38740&IDDivision=h2018052915143688609575df683e345

Black Hawk went on winning the next game in the tournament to advance to the championship game against Beaver Dam.  Black Hawk eventually lost 49-67 to beaver Dam, but for the first 8 minutes of the championship game Black Hawk was winning.  As a side note Beaver Dam was missing one of their starters for this tournament but because of their great depth it really did not hurt them at all.

If it was not for this Wisconsin Varsity Invitational tournament Black Hawk would never had received the  chance to play the schools they did: New Berlin Eisenhower, Kimberly, Appleton West and Beaver Dam; all having much larger enrollments.  These bigger enrollment schools usually have nothing to gain playing the little schools.  If the big schools win they receive no recognition for beating a smaller school because it was perceived that the bigger school should have won the contest before the game even started.  If the small school wins the big school gets downgraded no matter how good the competition was that they competed against.   It’s basically a no win situation for the big schools when playing the smaller schools.

Because of this perceived outlook it is very hard for smaller schools to schedule competition against the bigger schools.  For the most part big schools will not schedule games with smaller schools that have a chance of beating the bigger schools.

In my opinion this is why when the question is ask to list the top teams in state the smaller schools usually fall short of this list and are not mentioned.  They never get a chance to compete against each other.



Why doesn't Black Hawk choose to play up in the playoffs?  They could do that if they wanted to play larger schools but let's be honest about why they don't. Let's also not go all "woe is me, the larger schools won't play us but come playoff time we want to be in D5." It's a 2 way street.

How much stock should we put into a summer tournament? Some kids aren't there and the coach is a recently graduated former player. It's hardly played or coached at the same level as a real season game. 
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eaglepride1

Blade12 said:

Why doesn't Black Hawk choose to play up in the playoffs?  They could do that if they wanted to play larger schools but let's be honest about why they don't. Let's also not go all "woe is me, the larger schools won't play us but come playoff time we want to be in D5." It's a 2 way street.

Nothing against Black Hawk here at all -- those girls are a darn good team! However, in regards to highlighted of Blade above, I say...

"Amen" -- Play up a division if you want to prove your the best. Frankly, I don't know why Beaver Dam wouldn't do that, same with Aquinas.
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blade12
eaglepride1 wrote:

Blade12 said:

Why doesn't Black Hawk choose to play up in the playoffs?  They could do that if they wanted to play larger schools but let's be honest about why they don't. Let's also not go all "woe is me, the larger schools won't play us but come playoff time we want to be in D5." It's a 2 way street.

Nothing against Black Hawk here at all -- those girls are a darn good team! However, in regards to highlighted of Blade above, I say...

"Amen" -- Play up a division if you want to prove your the best. Frankly, I don't know why Beaver Dam wouldn't do that, same with Aquinas.


Because the chance of losing increases by playing up. Better to show off gold and silver balls from any division in a trophy case than talk about an almost.
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eaglepride1
For sure. I see the real reasons "why", but with the truly unique make-up of those two teams based on their current divisional alignment, I don't know how they wouldn't win 1 & 3 respectively. I would really like to see the Marshall vs. Aquinas game at the Resch, that's for sure!
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blade12
A lot of the better teams find a way to schedule each other in non conference or the attractive match ups are arranged in the showcase invite only events being held throughout the season. Those types of events are being organized and promoted more and more and serve as a way for schools, coaches, and players to get some attention. I think we will see the number of them around the state and out of state continue to increase.
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westernwihoops
eaglepride1 wrote:
For sure. I see the real reasons "why", but with the truly unique make-up of those two teams based on their current divisional alignment, I don't know how they wouldn't win 1 & 3 respectively. I would really like to see the Marshall vs. Aquinas game at the Resch, that's for sure!


Marshall played Aquinas at a Steven's Point holiday tournament last year.  If I remember correctly, Donarski and a couple other starters were in foul trouble early, but Aquinas won by 10 or so.  The La Crosse Tribune mentioned that Beaver Dam and Aquinas will play next season at JAG Fieldhouse.  I wonder if Black Hawk and Mel-Min will play again next year?
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dlep
Just noticed someone was using SUMMER BASKETBALL as a comparison of programs.  There could not be anything more useless than summer basketball tournaments.  Teams may play with different rosters. Teams may have different summer goals.  It is asinine to compare a summer tournament game to an inseason game. 
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