blade12
Last week I said I would start this thread after the State games were over so here it is.

IMO HS bball is where this is most noticeable but it does happen in probably every other sport too. We have seen the end of WIAA Summer Baseball due to too many schools switching to spring. What drives the switch?  Too many very good HS players that were not playing HS baseball because they prefer to play for their travel team in summer instead.  To be fair, any sport that had a WIAA summer season would be facing the same situation of kids choosing AAU, club soccer, etc. over the HS summer season.

What is really noticeable to me is the expanding influence of AAU bball on HS kids. The recruiting, the transfers, the invite only HS events that feature only schools that have kids from specific AAU programs. The AAU programs are far better and more active promoting these kids than any HS ever will be.

If you ask me the WIAA is finding themselves in a tough spot. The lengths families are willing to go to in order to be eligible is almost boundless.  The WIAA relies on Admin and AD's at the local level to be above board on this but are they really?  I think all of this transfer/moving stuff is going to snowball big time. If the WIAA is able to pass, monitor and enforce the new "pre-existing relationship" rule it may help but will they really be able to do that?

I was pretty turned off by what happened at Nicolet this past season. Washington adding a transfer 3 weeks ago raised my eyebrows. There are plenty of other schools with similar things going on they just don't get highly national ranked kids. I still watched and went to several games but as someone else put in in another thread, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. 
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dawgstyle
I will repeat this here for you.

Yes because heaven forbid these kids do whats best for themselves.  

Kids should never transfer for better opportunities or self promote because organizations like the WIAA and the NCAA always have the kids best interests in mind.

Parents are doing what they believe is best for their kids, not what's best for you the fan, the WIAA, or the school district.  How is this any different than kids leaving public schools to attend STEM schools to get ahead in life?

Are you really standing on a soapbox trying to protect the sanctity of high school basketball?
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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thecrackerjack
dawgstyle wrote:
I will repeat this here for you.

Yes because heaven forbid these kids do whats best for themselves.  

Kids should never transfer for better opportunities or self promote because organizations like the WIAA and the NCAA always have the kids best interests in mind.

Parents are doing what they believe is best for their kids, not what's best for you the fan, the WIAA, or the school district.  How is this any different than kids leaving public schools to attend STEM schools to get ahead in life?

Are you really standing on a soapbox trying to protect the sanctity of high school basketball?


While I am all for kids doing what is best for themselves, in the case of the Johnsons, what benefit did they get from moving across the state to play hoops with their friends? 
Fear of the unknown is the greatest fear of all.
- Yvon Chouinard

@miedent 
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dawgstyle


While I am all for kids doing what is best for themselves, in the case of the Johnsons, what benefit did they get from moving across the state to play hoops with their friends? 


I wont claim to know everything about this particular situation.  Who is the coach at Nicolet vs (I believe he came from Sun Prairie?)  Do they run different offenses?  Is there better access to facilities?  I honestly don't know the answer.

If we are trying to point out the faults in a few specific cases, I am sure they are there to be found.  But the overall "outside influences on HS Sports" is only there for the top % of kids that think they have a chance to earn a scholarship and possibly get paid to play someday.  Considering the extreme cost of college and the debt load that people graduate with, who can blame these kids or their parents for wanting to sacrifice small amounts now in AAU costs and school transfers for the possibility of saving 100+ thousand dollars in the future.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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gstacy
Can we talk about the kids who left MPS to the suburbs and how this actually ruined the MPS schools systems or are we only focusing on hs basketball? Privatization of public education has it's pluses and minus'. What is best for the kids? Where did this all come from?
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dawgstyle
gstacy wrote:
Can we talk about the kids who left MPS to the suburbs and how this actually ruined the MPS schools systems or are we only focusing on hs basketball? Privatization of public education has it's pluses and minus'. What is best for the kids? Where did this all come from?


From a discussion of privatization of public education and what is best for the kids, it depends on who you ask.  Public policy makers and school administrators are there to create an equal playing field for everyone.  The problem is that kids aren't all equal.  When you design a system that is focused on the below average kid, it shouldn't be a surprise that the above average kid leaves the system to find something that is more fitting for them.  

This goes into a MUCH larger discussion of the issues with the American education system.  Advancement based on age and an outdated curriculum that FORCES the teaching of a ton of useless skills (advanced math, advanced sciences, multiple years of history and english) while neglecting basic life skills is just the tip of the iceberg.  

The world has evolved greatly over the last 30 years and education has done nothing to keep up with it.  This, like sports, is why things like STEM schools, charter schools, and AAU teams have flourished.  
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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thecrackerjack
dawgstyle wrote:


I wont claim to know everything about this particular situation.  Who is the coach at Nicolet vs (I believe he came from Sun Prairie?)  Do they run different offenses?  Is there better access to facilities?  I honestly don't know the answer.

If we are trying to point out the faults in a few specific cases, I am sure they are there to be found.  But the overall "outside influences on HS Sports" is only there for the top % of kids that think they have a chance to earn a scholarship and possibly get paid to play someday.  Considering the extreme cost of college and the debt load that people graduate with, who can blame these kids or their parents for wanting to sacrifice small amounts now in AAU costs and school transfers for the possibility of saving 100+ thousand dollars in the future.


You mean the shoe company influence behind a move or two this year and likely facilitating a few moves next year? ðŸ˜‰

I agree with the bolded. Part of the issue is that these top kids moving around effects the landscape of high school hoops because they are that good. 
Fear of the unknown is the greatest fear of all.
- Yvon Chouinard

@miedent 
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gstacy



All-State
5,887 posts






dawgstyle
7 minutes ago



gstacy wrote: 
Can we talk about the kids who left MPS to the suburbs and how this actually ruined the MPS schools systems or are we only focusing on hs basketball? Privatization of public education has it's pluses and minus'. What is best for the kids? Where did this all come from?

From a discussion of privatization of public education and what is best for the kids, it depends on who you ask. Public policy makers and school administrators are there to create an equal playing field for everyone. The problem is that kids aren't all equal. When you design a system that is focused on the below average kid, it shouldn't be a surprise that the above average kid leaves the system to find something that is more fitting for them.

This goes into a MUCH larger discussion of the issues with the American education system. Advancement based on age and an outdated curriculum that FORCES the teaching of a ton of useless skills (advanced math, advanced sciences, multiple years of history and english) while neglecting basic life skills is just the tip of the iceberg.

The world has evolved greatly over the last 30 years and education has done nothing to keep up with it. This, like sports, is why things like STEM schools, charter schools, and AAU teams have flourished.

exactly, I care about basketball but come on...
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dawgstyle


You mean the shoe company influence behind a move or two this year and likely facilitating a few moves next year? Ã°Å¸Ëœâ€°

I agree with the bolded. Part of the issue is that these top kids moving around effects the landscape of high school hoops because they are that good. 


But this is no different than college sports.  Kids transfer and it changes who is the better team.  I fail to understand how this is damaging anything.  

Before I hear a comeback of there is a difference between high school and college, you have to try and convince the top % of kids and their families of that.  They don't care about the 8 best player on a .500 team that can't dribble with his left hand.  They are giving themselves the best opportunity to succeed in life.

Is the system supposed to be designed to the protect that 8th best player?  If so, don't be surprised when the top % of kids just leave high school sports as a whole and start a system like AAU where they all play.

See public vs charter schools as evidence of this.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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wiscopetty
This ties back into a bit of discussion yesterday about the WIAA and their role in enforcing things like transfer rules. That is, what should their role be? Is it to influence the larger "culture" of high school sports in Wisconsin, or is it simply to enforce the rules that are on the books? I side with the camp that says kids and their families will always find a way around certain restrictions, and at some point the WIAA starts chasing its own tail.

The effect of superteams in professional leagues (especially the NBA) has certainly had a trickle-down effect on high school teams – players want to play with other talented players. It's hard to begrudge them for that, but there's that old line: "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should." The devil-may-care attitude ignores what is essentially running and hiding from a tougher situation to an easier one. I'm not especially familiar with the Jalen Johnson situation, but echoing crackerjack's point, there's little logical reason to leave a large, wealthy school district like Sun Prairie for Nicolet.

It's a really interesting phenomenon that I think will only get worse. 30 years ago, you basically played for the district you were born in. You weren't transferring across the state. It doesn't help that a lot of these decisions are being made at the same time as small, rural school districts are being hollowed out.
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gstacy
with all the laws that are on the books, WIAA has limited control over player movement.
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gstacy
NBA superteams didn't cause this. NBA exists in the free market, hs education was a public institution, but that has changed over the years so students can leave the "failing" schools to attend a better school. Has nothing to do with super teams.
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blade12
gstacy wrote:
with all the laws that are on the books, WIAA has limited control over player movement.

You are correct the WIAA does not have any control over what school a kid chooses to attend. They do have full control over the eligibility of a participant in their events or not.
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dawgstyle
blade12 wrote:

You are correct the WIAA does not have any control over what school a kid chooses to attend. They do have full control over the eligibility of a participant in their events or not.


And that is what you would prefer?  That the top 10% (just throwing a number out there) of basketball talent in WI is no longer eligible to participate in WIAA events?
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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wiscopetty
I find it hard to believe that the public/private debate and/or quality of schooling is factoring much into these kids' decisions. Certainly no one with a lick of common sense could be convinced that Sun Prairie is a "failing" school in any way, shape, or form.

The general culture of high school athletics is starting to stink from rot. Overinvolved parents, AAU, one-sport athletes, ridiculous facilities, transfers...much like college sports, at some point you step back and ask, "what is this really about?" And we're starting kids on this path earlier and earlier.
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