realitycheck

OK I’m pretty old and have watched a kagillion football games at all levels so you would think by now I would have seen everything.  NOPE!  I was in the process of shutting everything down for the night at the end of the Cleveland/Pittsburgh game when all of a sudden I witnessed something that I have never seen before. 

At what point do league officials realize that maybe some players might not be cut out to play this game?  I totally understand the emotion and physicality involved in playing the game but if one can't control one's self and attempts to seriously injure or kill another player outside the rules, in my eyes that's grounds for a permanent suspension, especially when you are carrying a rap sheet with your name on it!

All I can say is thank God he didn't hit Rudolph squarely on the head with the crown of the helmet because that may have been enough to end his life which is not what football was intended to do.

What do you bois think?

Make sure you flush twice for insurance!
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kenny78
I agree 100%. A permanent ban is in order here.
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dfnewburry
No sympathy for the Steelers , these bumbs employed ambassadors of goodwill such as James Harrison and Ryan Shazier .

The Alzado rule... https://twitter.com/nflmaverick/status/908163268790943744?lang=en








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db11
It's a league full of sociopaths from players down to coaches and probably more than a few owners.

People talk about fixing football...removing the sociopaths at every level might actually be the place to start. The game was never conceived as a way to be able to legally maim people, but society has turned that into a thing.

Interesting to see grown, supposedly mature people using the "but he started it" defense. Faux macho BS galore in the internet-sphere today.

Garrett's been suspended indefinitely...how long that lasts (my guess is just the remainder of the year) though...
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
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"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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amped0808
db11 wrote:
It's a league full of sociopaths from players down to coaches and probably more than a few owners.

People talk about fixing football...removing the sociopaths at every level might actually be the place to start. The game was never conceived as a way to be able legally maim people, but society has turned that into a thing.

Interesting to see grown, supposedly mature people using the "but he started it" defense. Faux macho BS galore in the internet-sphere today.

Garrett's been suspended indefinitely...how long that lasts (my guess is just the remainder of the year) though...


Also Maurkice Pouncey suspended 3 games and Larry Ogunjobi suspended 1 game and both will be fined as well.

Both Pittsburgh and Cleveland have been fined $250,000 as well.

Probably a few more players will be fined for their actions as well in the next few days.
2013 WSN HOF Inductee, 2014 Derek Lendosky Poster of the Year
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dawgstyle
Is everyone conveniently forgetting the Cortland Finnegan vs Andre Johnson fight?  How about every time an MLB pitcher gets his feelings hurt when someone launches a ball 500ft and stares at it too long so he throws a 100mph fastball at someones head?  Or how about the horrors you hear about what goes on in a pile during a fumble?   If you want to start going the criminal route, prepare for a very slippery slope.



Myles Garrett should be suspended for the rest of the season and that should be the end of it.  Mason Rudolph should also be suspended for trying to pull Garretts helmet off and kicking him in the groin while he was down prior the the swinging of the helmet.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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amped0808
As soon as I heard Garrett used a helmet as a weapon, it gave me flashbacks to the Florida International-Miami brawl over a decade ago. In that fight I Miami player tried to hit FIU players with his helmet and a injured FIU player tried to hit people with his crutches.
2013 WSN HOF Inductee, 2014 Derek Lendosky Poster of the Year
Wissports HOF Coordinator
Once a Warrior, Always a Warrior
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WLC Men's Tennis: 2013-14 Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference Tournament Champions (13-10)
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realitycheck
dawgstyle wrote:
Is everyone conveniently forgetting the Cortland Finnegan vs Andre Johnson fight?  How about every time an MLB pitcher gets his feelings hurt when someone launches a ball 500ft and stares at it too long so he throws a 100mph fastball at someones head?  Or how about the horrors you hear about what goes on in a pile during a fumble?   If you want to start going the criminal route, prepare for a very slippery slope.

dawgstyle wrote:


Myles Garrett should be suspended for the rest of the season and that should be the end of it.  Mason Rudolph should also be suspended for trying to pull Garretts helmet off and kicking him in the groin while he was down prior the the swinging of the helmet.


I totally get your slippery slope comment.  However, you can't really pack everyone of your analogies up in a neat box and just treat them the same.  You need to evaluate each incident (whatever it may be) and determine what the best recourse or solution is.  In kind of a sick way, I feel like you are saying that if he killed Rudolph, he should just get suspended the rest of the year and fined.  Thank God that didn't happen and I'm pretty sure you're not thinking that.  BTW:  The Finnegan/Johnson thing was nothing more than a slap fight.  We are talking about a player taking a heavy hard helmet and willingly swinging at another person's head at CLOSE PROXIMITY!  Any player that feels that this is OK to do should not be playing football.  Any MLB pitcher who deliberately throws 100-mph fastball at some one's head should not be playing either.  Maybe criminal isn't the right word but I couldn't think of a better one at the time.

I do agree with you that Rudolph got off easy here.  They still might address that yet though.
Make sure you flush twice for insurance!
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dawgstyle


I totally get your slippery slope comment.  However, you can't really pack everyone of your analogies up in a neat box and just treat them the same.  You need to evaluate each incident (whatever it may be) and determine what the best recourse or solution is.  In kind of a sick way, I feel like you are saying that if he killed Rudolph, he should just get suspended the rest of the year and fined.  Thank God that didn't happen and I'm pretty sure you're not thinking that.  BTW:  The Finnegan/Johnson thing was nothing more than a slap fight.  We are talking about a player taking a heavy hard helmet and willingly swinging at another person's head at CLOSE PROXIMITY!  Any player that feels that this is OK to do should not be playing football.  Any MLB pitcher who deliberately throws 100-mph fastball at some one's head should not be playing either.  Maybe criminal isn't the right word but I couldn't think of a better one at the time.

I do agree with you that Rudolph got off easy here.  They still might address that yet though.


No i think if he had killed him we would be having a different conversation.  But he didn't kill him.  Just like when MLB pitchers throw at guys and hit them in the back or throw at someones head and they get out of the way.  The first time that someone takes 100mph fastball to the face we will be having a different conversation.  

Finnegan Johnson was not a slap fight.  Watch that video.  Johnson throws a haymaker to the side of his head.  Are you calling it a slap fight if he connects on his temple and puts him in a coma?  1 punch can do a ton of damage, see Rudy Tomjanovich.

This is just typical reactionary America today.  Something happens and we blow it way out of proportion.  The day you can differentiate between a guy swinging a helmet at another human being and a guy throwing a baseball at another human being, I will gladly listen.  Until then, this is just a big deal because its basically never happened before.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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db11
dawgstyle wrote:


No i think if he had killed him we would be having a different conversation.  But he didn't kill him.  Just like when MLB pitchers throw at guys and hit them in the back or throw at someones head and they get out of the way.  The first time that someone takes 100mph fastball to the face we will be having a different conversation.  

Finnegan Johnson was not a slap fight.  Watch that video.  Johnson throws a haymaker to the side of his head.  Are you calling it a slap fight if he connects on his temple and puts him in a coma?  1 punch can do a ton of damage, see Rudy Tomjanovich.

This is just typical reactionary America today.  Something happens and we blow it way out of proportion.  The day you can differentiate between a guy swinging a helmet at another human being and a guy throwing a baseball at another human being, I will gladly listen.  Until then, this is just a big deal because its basically never happened before.


While both horrific, at least the hitter in baseball would have, you know, some protection on his head...that's probably the biggest difference alongside it'd be harder to prove intent (regardless of how clear it may seem) in baseball because beanballs happen unintentionally over the course of a season...as you said, this...just doesn't happen.

Also, the narrative that is concussion and head trauma in tackle football drives a lot of commentary today.
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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realitycheck
db11 wrote:


While both horrific, at least the hitter in baseball would have, you know, some protection on his head...that's probably the biggest difference alongside it'd be harder to prove intent (regardless of how clear it may seem) in baseball because beanballs happen unintentionally over the course of a season...as you said, this...just doesn't happen.

Also, the narrative that is concussion and head trauma in tackle football drives a lot of commentary today.


DB11: You beat me to the punch on the difference between intent, proximity, and protection.  That should have been simple common sense.

I do have a solution to all of the football problems including this one.  Let's bust out the old leather helmets again.  I'm pretty sure players would be a little more reluctant to lead with their head thus cutting down on concussions and if they wanted to rip one off of someone's head and beat them with it, it would just like getting slapped with a baseball glove!  ðŸ˜‚😂😂
Make sure you flush twice for insurance!
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dawgstyle


DB11: You beat me to the punch on the difference between intent, proximity, and protection.  That should have been simple common sense.

I do have a solution to all of the football problems including this one.  Let's bust out the old leather helmets again.  I'm pretty sure players would be a little more reluctant to lead with their head thus cutting down on concussions and if they wanted to rip one off of someone's head and beat them with it, it would just like getting slapped with a baseball glove!  Ã°Å¸Ëœâ€šÃ°Å¸Ëœâ€šÃ°Å¸Ëœâ€š


Pitchers intentionally throw at other players.  If you are suggesting that doesn't happen you are wrong. 

There is very little time to get out of the way of a 95mph fastball.

The head is protected, the face is not.  

This isn't common sense.  This is the fact that pitchers throw at players on a weekly basis and its an accepted practice, just like fighting in hockey.  The reality is there is no difference.  These are all forms of battery in the real world. 
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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dawgstyle
db11 wrote:


While both horrific, at least the hitter in baseball would have, you know, some protection on his head...that's probably the biggest difference alongside it'd be harder to prove intent (regardless of how clear it may seem) in baseball because beanballs happen unintentionally over the course of a season...as you said, this...just doesn't happen.

Also, the narrative that is concussion and head trauma in tackle football drives a lot of commentary today.



I was having this discussion with a lawyer who I work with that isn't a sports fan.  The throwing of the ball is the intent.  If you intentionally throw something in the direction of someone and hit them, that is battery.

The biggest difference is that this happens weekly in baseball and so people view it as acceptable.  Pitchers throwing baseballs at opponents, hockey players slashing opponents, and this are all the same thing.  In a real world situation these would all result in a charge of battery.  This just seems absurd because even though football is a violent game, this is a line that just doesn't get crossed.  Though I would also say I can't remember the last time I saw a player on his back intentionally kick the guy standing over him in the groin, twice.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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realitycheck
dawgstyle wrote:


Pitchers intentionally throw at other players.  If you are suggesting that doesn't happen you are wrong. 

There is very little time to get out of the way of a 95mph fastball.

The head is protected, the face is not.  

This isn't common sense.  This is the fact that pitchers throw at players on a weekly basis and its an accepted practice, just like fighting in hockey.  The reality is there is no difference.  These are all forms of battery in the real world. 


I totally agree with your last sentence!  Usually those incidents are dealt with in their own way too.

Look DAWG...  I understand everything that you are saying but we are not talking about MLB pitchers.  We're talking about a football player hitting another player in the head with a helmet.  Yes pitchers throw at batters... I never said that they don't.  But... how would one truly know if it was intentional or a complete accident?  Sometimes throwing baseballs can get away from you.  That does happen.  An onlooker would not know if it was intentional or accidental.  Only the pitcher would know.  It's a lot more obvious when you see a football player rip a helmet off of another player and then swing it AND HIT that player at close range without any protection.  You are kind of comparing apples to oranges here.  Your frame of thought can be very interesting at times.  I do know this.... I would never get in an argument with you as to whether a glass is half full or half empty...
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dawgstyle
It's not apples to oranges.  It's you making an excuse that you can't be sure of what someone's intent was.  One could argue that Myles Garrett was attacked by Mason Rudolph when he tried to rip his helmet off and kicked him in the groin twice.  On top that of that two of Rudolphs teammates also got involved.  Garrett therefore had no choice but to defend himself from a man that had already assaulted him and two people who were assisting that man.  

The above makes as much sense as claiming that when a pitcher faces a batter that hit a HR off him on the previous at bat and watched it for an extended period of time happens to throw the first pitch in the area around his head, it just got away from him.  

I know we aren't talking about pitchers.  Of course when I pointed out two football players ripping helmets off and throwing punches, you just excused that as a slap fight.  So clearly no matter what example I give of unacceptable violence in sports, you are just going to insist that this is different.  I disagree.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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