realitycheck
As the 2019/2020 NFL season wraps up here, we all now have to ask ourselves, how effective is this instant replay reviewing system they have in place?

Honestly, the OPI/DPI calls (or no calls) are mind-blowing sometimes!

IMO: I watch a lot of football and see a lot of strange calls and no calls.  I was under the illusion that instant replay would make things right but I'm not sure that's the case anymore.  As far as I'm concerned, let's get rid of it once and for all and go back to the good old days and rely on the officials making the calls on the field.  Good or bad, everyone accepted that back in the day and dealt with it.  Yes, there will be mistakes like there are everywhere but that's just the nature of officiating sports.  The way I see it, the same mistakes are being made with instant replay so why not just get rid of it all together and speed up the game(s).
Make sure you flush twice for insurance!
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db11
I've been on the "get rid of replay" train for awhile. At the least it's use needs to be curtailed quite a bit. You could also say that about the rulebook as well, but I think Pandora's Box has long since been opened on that front.

You're chasing a perfection that never can happen, and all-too-often only ends up mucking up the waters. It destroys game flow as well, to say nothing of the unintended consequence of its presence changing the way officials call the game on the field.

What's the point if it isn't making things tangibly better?
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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hodor64
If I had my druthers I would take away replay from all sports, but I think we are so far from that age it is silly to even contemplate it.  However, I think there needs to seriously look at what needs to be called in real time and what is an objective issue.  In football, the ball crossing the goal line is objective; it did or it did not, same in soccer.  In basketball, the ball leaving the hand of the shooter before or after the clock is objective.  In all sports out of bounds can be replayed.  What I do not like are using technology to slow down a game that has rules that are based on interpretation of events that happen in real time.  OPI/DPI are subjective by rule; off sides in soccer is based on an observation and moving parts, not a precise line at a millisecond moment when the ball is played; fouls are fouls and subject to the ruling of the official.

Otherwise start putting chips in the balls and have electronic everything.
Some hero's wear capes, others just hold the door!
RIP: Wyllis
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dawgstyle
I'd replay everything.  In baseball I would created an automated strike zone and never have a discussion about it again.   

I can never wrap my head around my people support human error.  Imagine being told your employer deposited 1.87 instead of 1870 into your account for the payday and even though they know it's wrong, it had to remain that way.  That makes no sense.  Neither does taking away 6 figure bonuses that players earn that are taken away on bad calls.
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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realitycheck
dawgstyle wrote:
I'd replay everything.  In baseball I would created an automated strike zone and never have a discussion about it again.   

I can never wrap my head around my people support human error.  Imagine being told your employer deposited 1.87 instead of 1870 into your account for the payday and even though they know it's wrong, it had to remain that way.  That makes no sense.  Neither does taking away 6 figure bonuses that players earn that are taken away on bad calls.


Human error is inevitable no matter how you look at it.  Your vision of a perfect world will never happen as long as humans are present.

Case in point, who was talking about baseball or banking here?  No one except you apparently!  This is about replays at football games ONLY!

Also... Just so you know, banking and playing football are two entirely different things.  You are always making the strangest comparisons when trying to convey your thoughts on various topics on this forum.

To your point though, the original plan for having replays was to make sure that the calls on the field are correct taking the human error out of play so your highly paid athletes don't get ripped off on their paychecks.  The problem is that the same errors and mistakes are still being made even with instant replay so why have it then?  That's all I'm saying.

How about this?… What steps do you think could be taken to improve instant replay moving forward?

Make sure you flush twice for insurance!
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blade12


Human error is inevitable no matter how you look at it.  Your vision of a perfect world will never happen as long as humans are present.

Case in point, who was talking about baseball or banking here?  No one except you apparently!  This is about replays at football games ONLY!

Also... Just so you know, banking and playing football are two entirely different things.  You are always making the strangest comparisons when trying to convey your thoughts on various topics on this forum.

To your point though, the original plan for having replays was to make sure that the calls on the field are correct taking the human error out of play so your highly paid athletes don't get ripped off on their paychecks.  The problem is that the same errors and mistakes are still being made even with instant replay so why have it then?  That's all I'm saying.

How about this?… What steps do you think could be taken to improve instant replay moving forward?



The problem is that we get to review and see the play from multiple angles in slo mo and split screen over and over and any ref only has 1 angle of it full speed live.  On a review the human element is such that we can't agree did a defender lead with his head or the ball carrier dip his head/shoulders to cause helmet to helmet or did the WR extend his arm and create OPI or did the defender grab or bat or drag the WR's arm down while running with him or was it an intentional act to keep his arm hindered.  Not a perfect world.

Every little bit of contact looks 100 times worse in review with slo mo and all.

I'd remove the review of judgement calls like OPI/DPI.  Want to know if the ball crossed the plane or a player was out of bounds or a possible fumble, that's fine.

I'd do away with most replay and add another official or 2 if you need better field coverage. IMO
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db11
Streamlined rules and not having to worry about "big brother" theoretically should lead to better overall officiating. Public opinion will never change regarding officals in sport though.

I thought hockey had it right when they were just reviewing goals, but even they've spread out to reviewing hits and offside, etc.

As a follower of European soccer, it's quite humorous to see their general reaction to the VAR process after telling them "hey, it's really become a lot more obtrusive than you'd think in American sport" when they were clamoring for replay and GLT the past few years

People have this idea that technology can clear every thing up, until you completely remove the human element and chop the rules down to strict black-and-whites, that simply isn't possible.

Simplify, don't complicate, and accept that pure perfection is not achievable and yes, (Saints fans) you may get the short end of the stick occasionally. At least the game will be less obnoxious to watch.
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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dawgstyle


Human error is inevitable no matter how you look at it.  Your vision of a perfect world will never happen as long as humans are present.

Case in point, who was talking about baseball or banking here?  No one except you apparently!  This is about replays at football games ONLY!

Also... Just so you know, banking and playing football are two entirely different things.  You are always making the strangest comparisons when trying to convey your thoughts on various topics on this forum.

To your point though, the original plan for having replays was to make sure that the calls on the field are correct taking the human error out of play so your highly paid athletes don't get ripped off on their paychecks.  The problem is that the same errors and mistakes are still being made even with instant replay so why have it then?  That's all I'm saying.

How about this?… What steps do you think could be taken to improve instant replay moving forward?



The topic is about replay.  Why does it need to be specific to football and not sports as a whole?  I'm sorry I got outside your comfort zone. 

I used banking because its something that directly affects you.  It's easy to be against something when you have no skin in the game.  My question would be, what do the players think?  If the players are all anti replay then by all means, it's their livelihood.  But if they want the calls to be reviewed to at least give the chance to correct a mistake, I dont know why I should be against that.

I understand you cant get it perfect but the idea that because you cant be perfect you shouldn't try to fix clear and obvious issues is possibly the dumbest approach to anything in the world.  
@2GuysFromWI

Harbaugh will have Urban Meyer retired from OSU by 2020.
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hodor64
dawgstyle wrote:


The topic is about replay.  Why does it need to be specific to football and not sports as a whole?  I'm sorry I got outside your comfort zone. 

I used banking because its something that directly affects you.  It's easy to be against something when you have no skin in the game.  My question would be, what do the players think?  If the players are all anti replay then by all means, it's their livelihood.  But if they want the calls to be reviewed to at least give the chance to correct a mistake, I dont know why I should be against that.

I understand you cant get it perfect but the idea that because you cant be perfect you shouldn't try to fix clear and obvious issues is possibly the dumbest approach to anything in the world.  


Math is finite and absolute, law is not.

If we are expanding replay and video review then we have to consider increasing the technology (e.g. chip in the football, electronic strike zone) and changing the rules (PI would then be any contact with the receiver and offsides in soccer would need to be "any part of the offensive player advances towards the goal ahead of the a defensive player other than the keeper."  The rules themselves hold interpretation as part of the enforcement.  If you are taking out that interpretation you need to make the rules finite as well.

What is less precise in football than the spot of the ball (a line judge 26 yards away making a determination where a ball is when a player is down by contact); but replay does not include a drone / overhead replay and is still made by the unit on the field.  Like an electronic strike zone, the technology exists to triangulate this with chips and video, but purests would throw a fit.  
Some hero's wear capes, others just hold the door!
RIP: Wyllis
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hodor64
db11 wrote:
Streamlined rules and not having to worry about "big brother" theoretically should lead to better overall officiating. Public opinion will never change regarding officals in sport though.

I thought hockey had it right when they were just reviewing goals, but even they've spread out to reviewing hits and offside, etc.

As a follower of European soccer, it's quite humorous to see their general reaction to the VAR process after telling them "hey, it's really become a lot more obtrusive than you'd think in American sport" when they were clamoring for replay and GLT the past few years

People have this idea that technology can clear every thing up, until you completely remove the human element and chop the rules down to strict black-and-whites, that simply isn't possible.

Simplify, don't complicate, and accept that pure perfection is not achievable and yes, (Saints fans) you may get the short end of the stick occasionally. At least the game will be less obnoxious to watch.


*THIS*

GLT or VAR on goals is an absolute when you see the examples of clear goals that we not scored because of the human element (similar to hockey), but OS, penalties, etc. have disrupted the game to a degree that it truly disrupts the game itself.  Before VAR, the solution really should have been just adding another Official, but again purests resist that change.
Some hero's wear capes, others just hold the door!
RIP: Wyllis
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realitycheck
OK so I was at my favorite watering hole last night.  Me and the boys were talking about the current state of instant replay in football.  Here was an interesting idea.  Not sure if that will solve anything but it might help get there.

It looks like when they show the replay office location in NY, you only see one or two guys with headsets on running around looking at monitors that are manned by a different individual.  What if you had 12 experienced and/or retired respected referees gather that would make up a jury.  You give each of them a button for voting.  They have to review the video in lets say 15 seconds and then they have to all vote within 15 seconds after that.  The final decision would be based on the majority.  You would eliminate that one person's possibly clouded interpretation that may or may not be correct and you replaced it with a jury decision.  I have to believe that you have a way better chance of getting the call right then.  Who can argue with a 12-person jury?  LOL... LOL...  By keeping these time constraints you would limit reviews to 30 seconds too.  With 12 people, I think you would also eliminate any possible hidden prejudices that might be present with the current one or two reviewing officials.

Personally, I do see this as a possibility of making the calls more accurate and done quicker.  Am I right or am I missing something which could easily be the case?
Make sure you flush twice for insurance!
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db11
Pro sports are already basically just sports entertainment, so why not bring in the game show element? 😎
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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hodor64
db11 wrote:
Pro sports are already basically just sports entertainment, so why not bring in the game show element? 😎


Multiple judges have removed any controversy from boxing, gymnastics and figure skating.
Some hero's wear capes, others just hold the door!
RIP: Wyllis
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realitycheck
Just when I thought I saw it all!

So who here has ever heard of a fumble on the field during a football game in which the refs couldn't tell who's ball it is?  I always thought is was whoever was holding it in the end?  In this case instant replay clearly showed it coming loose prior to the receiver hitting the ground and then things got weird after that.

BIG black eye there.  Nothing like the officials embarrassing themselves on national TV...
Make sure you flush twice for insurance!
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db11
Apparently being the first guy to jump on top of the ball AND being the guy who comes out of the pile with the ball are completely meaningless.

That was just strange...but that's the NFL's modus operandi.
https://twitter.com/barwickipedia - Follow me. Because we all need a bit of sports snark in our lives.

"Doin' right ain't got no end."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales

"'Allegedly' is right, Mr. Polian. I have a hole in my ear drum, I'd never go for a swim, no matter how drunk me is."
-Pat McAfee
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