blade12
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/high-school/wrestling/2017/02/16/de-pere-wrestlers-ineligible-sectionals/98004478/

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hodor64
Heartbreaking and devastating. I question the validity of the rule as it doesn't really provide the safety it proclaims, as well as the interpretation that a double dual is two contests, even though it is held on the same night. The rule is the rule and the WIAA has the authority to interpret and enforce.

Where I think the WIAA is being unfair, is that they knew the situation on February 3 when DePere self-reported and allowed De Pere to wrestle in Regionals. Only when schools complained did they reverse course and DQ the wrestlers who had qualified for Sectionals. That is wrong and sets a very bad precedent.

Some hero's wear capes, others just hold the door!
RIP: Wyllis
Quote 0 0
banks93
The WIAA helping students across WI be great again.[]

This organization needs to either get into the 21st century or just go away.

Let the kids wrestle.
Quote 0 0
safetysqueezepleezzee11
banks93 wrote:
The WIAA helping students across WI be great again.[]

This organization needs to either get into the 21st century or just go away.

Let the kids wrestle.


Just when you think the WIAA cant do anything dumber, they prove us wrong. To let these kids go to regionals and now make them ineligible for sectionals is absolutely horrendously STUPID!

The supposed 'adults in the room' seem to have made the wrong calls. AD and Coach for getting into this situation and the WIAA for allowing them to compete at regionals. WIAA had the info early enough if they wanted to disqualify these kids from post season competitions. To let them start in post season then pull the chute is bad, bad, bad, bad.
And the WIAA officials wonder why virtually no one has much use for them and their decisions and their laughable organization.

This only punishes innocent students/athletes - nothing else, at this stage of the game. I don't know a thing about wrestling, but this seems like a pretty innocent thing to me. Why punish the wrestlers? What is the end point of punishing the wrestlers?? To make some other team and their wrestlers happy?
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nrhstiger
What I find so interesting about this is that this rule has been around since at least I was in High School, and every few years some school gets caught up in it. This should not be the WIAA, it should fall squarely on the schools.
St Croix moved to Minnesota. He is now dead to me. R.I.P.
Quote 0 0
safetysqueezepleezzee11
kenny78 wrote:
Unfortunately, this is what happens when the courts and the lawyers get involved in high school sports. They live in a black and white world where they expect to see a specific penalty for a specific infraction. There is no room for interpretations, mitigating circumstances, etc. We see it all the time with the athletic code infractions. I don't blame the WIAA one bit because they are between a rock and a hard place. If they allow the error in scheduling to go unpunished then some other jerk family down the line will either challenge that in court so that their child can continue to compete in the tournament or try and use this ruling to get some moron off from a suspension. Sadly, we have people in the country who will do any sleazy thing to get ahead.

It is unfortunate that these athletes will not be able to compete in sectionals. To their credit they appear to have shown a maturity beyond their years with their response.


I don't have any problems if you want to go by 'rules are rules', but why did the WIAA let those wrestlers go to regionals? WIAA was notified well ahead of regionals. That decision could have been made via teleconference in less than one hour. To allow them to go to regionals and then pull the chute just shows what 'burnouts' we have in the WIAA. burnout coaches and burnout AD's tend to flock to the WIAA. burnouts attract other burnouts - I have seen in throughout my life in almost every field of endeavor.
Quote 0 0
kenny78
Unfortunately, this is what happens when the courts and the lawyers get involved in high school sports. They live in a black and white world where they expect to see a specific penalty for a specific infraction. There is no room for interpretations, mitigating circumstances, etc. We see it all the time with the athletic code infractions. I don't blame the WIAA one bit because they are between a rock and a hard place. If they allow the error in scheduling to go unpunished then some other jerk family down the line will either challenge that in court so that their child can continue to compete in the tournament or try and use this ruling to get some moron off from a suspension. Sadly, we have people in the country who will do any sleazy thing to get ahead.

It is unfortunate that these athletes will not be able to compete in sectionals. To their credit they appear to have shown a maturity beyond their years with their response.
Quote 0 0
hueby
Personally I don't follow wrestling much, but wanted to say there must be an updated article out there which I read last night.

It sounds like the WIAA did their own review of DePere's schedule. There is a website called TrackWrestling.com and what I got from the article was one of the wrestling meets either wasn't on the website (or was overlooked in the initial review?)

Some other things- which in my opinion probably caused the oversight - was one of DePere' s wrestling meets was listed as a "Junior Varsity" event, however.... varsity wrestlers participated in this.

The article mentioned DePere did provide the WIAA with their own internal documents. I don't remember reading if the WIAA had this when they initially reviewed DePere's schedule/who participated.

Anyways the DePere coach took it hard. Was willing to lose his job if it meant the wrestlers could move on. The article lists who is ineligible. Also two wrestlers who were eligible to advance have voluntarily declined as a show of solidarity.

Hope this helps. I will say living here it seems the interest and participation in wrestling has greatly increased than what it used to be in the FRCC. But then I was more wrapped up in hockey.
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safetysqueezepleezzee11
hueby wrote:
Personally I don't follow wrestling much, but wanted to say there must be an updated article out there which I read last night.

It sounds like the WIAA did their own review of DePere's schedule. There is a website called TrackWrestling.com and what I got from the article was one of the wrestling meets either wasn't on the website (or was overlooked in the initial review?)

Some other things- which in my opinion probably caused the oversight - was one of DePere' s wrestling meets was listed as a "Junior Varsity" event, however.... varsity wrestlers participated in this.

The article mentioned DePere did provide the WIAA with their own internal documents. I don't remember reading if the WIAA had this when they initially reviewed DePere's schedule/who participated.

Anyways the DePere coach took it hard. Was willing to lose his job if it meant the wrestlers could move on. The article lists who is ineligible. Also two wrestlers who were eligible to advance have voluntarily declined as a show of solidarity.

Hope this helps. I will say living here it seems the interest and participation in wrestling has greatly increased than what it used to be in the FRCC. But then I was more wrapped up in hockey.


I understand the rule and I also understand the school self-reported. Why is the WIAA so often reactive and NOT proactive? Ruling the wrestlers out of the regionals would have been unpopular, but it would have been the correct call. To let these wrestlers go to regionals and then qualify for sectionals; then suspend them is ludicrous but not surprising of the way the WIAA handles problems. The only ones that 'suffer' will be the students. Coaches, AD and the WIAA will just wash their hands and feel all sanctimonious about themselves. RULES ARE RULES. I can just hear the crapola from the WIAA. That would be correct if the WIAA had actually enforced the rules prior to the regionals.
All this talk of 'self-enforcing' is a joke. The school reported the violation well before regionals. Stupid calls be the WIAA again.
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traviswilson
Read the article. The wrestlers participated in Regionals because according to the info the WIAA had at that time, they were eligible. New information was discovered after regionals that showed them to be ineligible. Not difficult to understand.
The Packers/Badgers/Brewers are like your children; you don't love them because they're good, you love them because they're yours.
10/22/2010 -- 598,210 pageviews for WSN
Follow me on Twitter: @travisWSN
Quote 0 0
safetysqueezepleezzee11
traviswilson wrote:
Read the article. The wrestlers participated in Regionals because according to the info the WIAA had at that time, they were eligible. New information was discovered after regionals that showed them to be ineligible. Not difficult to understand.


How did the information change? Either they were eligible or they weren't. This wasn't that hard. WIAA will make statements like this to hide their stupidity. "New information was discovered" - that's hilarious. As I said previously, once the team self reported, this could have been figured out in a teleconference in an hour or so.

It sounds to me the WIAA is almost admitting their mistake. There was no NEW information. The team that reported the violation knew they had wrestled an extra meet otherwise they wouldn't have self reported. Not sure why you are rowing a boat for the WIAA in this? I don't deny the team violated the rules, I simply say the WIAA (AGAIN) missed the boat in handling a situation. This has become way to common.

By the way, I did read the article. Not sure what you are getting there. I cant imagine declaring a team eligible for the post season, then saying there is new information AFTER participation begins. The team reported the EXACT information to the WIAA. The WIAA's not making them ineligible in the first place just shows their incompetence. After the team qualified 10 wrestlers, I have to assume clowns from other schools called to whine. WIAA needed to take the blame at that point. Horrible, horrible reasoning by the WIAA.

There was no new information - that sounds like a legal claim. Probably ran it by the lawyers and saying that (even if it is totally bogus) would 'feel good' for the WIAA and get them off the hook.

Time to purge the WIAA organization of burnouts or get rid of the organization.
Quote 0 0
traviswilson
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
traviswilson wrote:
Read the article. The wrestlers participated in Regionals because according to the info the WIAA had at that time, they were eligible. New information was discovered after regionals that showed them to be ineligible. Not difficult to understand.


How did the information change? Either they were eligible or they weren't. This wasn't that hard. WIAA will make statements like this to hide their stupidity. "New information was discovered" - that's hilarious. As I said previously, once the team self reported, this could have been figured out in a teleconference in an hour or so.

It sounds to me the WIAA is almost admitting their mistake. There was no NEW information. The team that reported the violation knew they had wrestled an extra meet otherwise they wouldn't have self reported. Not sure why you are rowing a boat for the WIAA in this? I don't deny the team violated the rules, I simply say the WIAA (AGAIN) missed the boat in handling a situation. This has become way to common.

Read the article. Again, it's not difficult to understand.
The Packers/Badgers/Brewers are like your children; you don't love them because they're good, you love them because they're yours.
10/22/2010 -- 598,210 pageviews for WSN
Follow me on Twitter: @travisWSN
Quote 0 0
safetysqueezepleezzee11
traviswilson wrote:
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
traviswilson wrote:
Read the article. The wrestlers participated in Regionals because according to the info the WIAA had at that time, they were eligible. New information was discovered after regionals that showed them to be ineligible. Not difficult to understand.


How did the information change? Either they were eligible or they weren't. This wasn't that hard. WIAA will make statements like this to hide their stupidity. "New information was discovered" - that's hilarious. As I said previously, once the team self reported, this could have been figured out in a teleconference in an hour or so.

It sounds to me the WIAA is almost admitting their mistake. There was no NEW information. The team that reported the violation knew they had wrestled an extra meet otherwise they wouldn't have self reported. Not sure why you are rowing a boat for the WIAA in this? I don't deny the team violated the rules, I simply say the WIAA (AGAIN) missed the boat in handling a situation. This has become way to common.

Read the article. Again, it's not difficult to understand.


I read it 5 times. All it does is give the WIAA an excuse. It doesn't change the info. You gotta have your head in sand to believe their garbage reasoning.
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blade12
Could DePere have claimed the extra matches, events, competition was part of their newly allowed 2 non-WIAA competitions during the season?

The school scheduled them so they must have approved of the events.

Quote 0 0
hodor64
traviswilson wrote:
safetysqueezepleezzee11 wrote:
traviswilson wrote:
Read the article. The wrestlers participated in Regionals because according to the info the WIAA had at that time, they were eligible. New information was discovered after regionals that showed them to be ineligible. Not difficult to understand.


How did the information change? Either they were eligible or they weren't. This wasn't that hard. WIAA will make statements like this to hide their stupidity. "New information was discovered" - that's hilarious. As I said previously, once the team self reported, this could have been figured out in a teleconference in an hour or so.

It sounds to me the WIAA is almost admitting their mistake. There was no NEW information. The team that reported the violation knew they had wrestled an extra meet otherwise they wouldn't have self reported. Not sure why you are rowing a boat for the WIAA in this? I don't deny the team violated the rules, I simply say the WIAA (AGAIN) missed the boat in handling a situation. This has become way to common.

Read the article. Again, it's not difficult to understand.


With all due respect, although the GBPG did an excellent job with the whole thing, the suggestion that there was any "new information" after the Friday, February 3 decision is not correct. There Board of Controls ruling on Friday the 17th hinged on whether the written letter issued by the WIAA on the 3rd was a "final decision" or whether that decision remained subject to the BOC final determination.

The article eludes to the particular number of individual matches that wrestlers participated in, but the ineligibility was based on exceeding the number of duals a team can be eligible for (7).

Here are the facts:

1. On December 15, 2016 De Pere participated in a double dual with Ashwaubenon and Preble. This was on the schedule from November and never hidden from anyone.

2. On February 2, 2017 De Pere Participated in its final dual of the season against Bay Port. By dates, this was the 7th dual of the season, by events, this was #8 and therefore violating the rule.

3. On February 3, 2017 the AD from an FRCC school contacted the De Pere AD and indicated that under that schools interpretation, DePere had violated the rule. De Pere then elected to self-report and was ruled ineligible by the WIAA for participation in the WIAA wrestling tournament. De Pere appealed that initial decision, and received a written letter from the WIAA that the team would be placed on probation for the 2017/18 season, but all wrestlers were eligible for participation.

4. On February 11, 2017 all wrestlers from DePere participated in the Preble Regional and De Pere advanced 10 wrestlers and had 4 Regional Champions.

5. Post Preble Regional, a school which was to participate in the Sectional issued an objection to the WIAA's determination that DePere wrestlers were eligible.

6. On February 16, 2017 DePere received notice that they were once again ineligible for the tournament and 8 of the 10 wrestlers who advanced to sectionals were deemed ineligible. DePere appealed that decision.

7. On February 17, DePere appealed, the BOC ruled that the determination of 2/3/2017 was not final, and therefore the BOC could review all the materials available, as they were not bound by the initial decision. The BOC ruled that DePere was ineligible.

Those are the facts, no allow me to interject some mitigating facts.

A. The error made by DePere (and there is no question that it was an error) is in interpretation and not math. The AD and Coach both readily admit that they should have understood that a double dual was two contests, but that mistake was made, no excuses.

B. The school that notified DP on 2/3/2017 would receive a distinct advantage for its team by DP being DQ'd. The two teams battled for the FRCC title, and were expected (and did) have a very close race for the Regional crown. It was implied that a factor in the 2/3/2017 decision that that school owed a duty of fair play, and should have notified DP before they participated in the dual with Bay Port on 2/2/2017 as they clearly knew that participating would result in DP's ineligibility for the post season. It is notable that this is also a school who had a team, in a different sport, in the past that was DQ'd based on exceeding the number of contest rules.

C. The information available on the 3rd was from the website used to calculated W/L records for the wrestlers for seeding the regionals. No additions or new information was added to the DP wrestlers numbers on that, as the FRCC does not have conference tournament. Any change that impacted DP post 2/3/2017 was the participating in a "JV tournament" on the weekend of the 4th, which none of the impacted wrestlers participated in.

D. The school that raised the post-Regional objection also had several wrestlers that would be impacted by DP DQ, as only 2 wrestlers will therefor advance to State. It is notable that the principal of that school sits on the BOC, although he did not participate in the 2/10/2017 appeal.


All of that being said, the class and grace in which the De Pere Administration, Parents and mostly the student athletes has been remarkable.
Some hero's wear capes, others just hold the door!
RIP: Wyllis
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