voiceofreason Show full post »
hoopdreamswi
The first buzzer and flash of the red lights on the backboard indicated the end of the shot clock. Then there was about a two second delay to the final buzzer. Ridiculous to miss that.
Quote 0 0
hoopdreamswi
travis wrote:
I didn't even hear the shot clock go off the first two times I listened to it. It's a different sound than the regular horn. I've never seen that before. Was that the normal sound for the shot clock at that facility or was it a malfunction that caused the refs not to realize it was the shot clock going off?


NCAA recommends having a different tone of buzzer for the shot clock buzzer and game clock buzzer. Not all gyms have it. In some places (and it seems this is one of them) the shot clock buzzer is a high pitched whistle, which can often get lost in the noise of the gym.

Still the red lights on the backboard and basic officiating 101 should never have let this happen.
Quote 0 0
whistleblower1
faststew wrote:
hoopdreams_wi wrote:
I'd like to hear others' takes on this finish. It's a college game and deals with the shot clock, but I'm sure you'll see the issue. Shot clock appears to expire on an airball three-pointer, but offensive team still gets two chances to put in the game-winner.


CLEARLY, the time ran out and the buzzer sounded late unless, theres something wrong with my ipad[] Wow they got robbed. Maybe heres one benifit of having 3 refs, because the 2 i saw didnt have a clue. You would think especially in closing moments of the game the refs would be "dialed in". Back to reffing middle school girls basketball you go!


I'm not sure if it's your iPad that there's something wrong with, but here's my take after watching the video several times: The shot clock expired before the offense had a shot attempt hit the rim, therefore there was a shot clock violation. The ball should be put in play by a throw in by the team in black with about 2 seconds left on the clock. The game clock expired about two seconds after the shot clock. One of the three officials (if not all) should have recognized that the shot clock expired. I would like to know what they talked about during their huddle.
Without officials, it would just be recess!
Quote 0 0
voiceofreason
Ok... another interesting one tonight.

Inbound Play...

Ref hands ball to player A on the sideline, begins 5 count.
Player A looks around, then heaves the ball cross court to Player B.
The ball is just about to Player B (mid-air), when the ref blows the whistle and calls a 5-second violation.

I'm assuming the ball has to be caught by Player B before the 5 seconds is up? I always thought it had to leave Player A's hands before the 5 count.
Proud purveyor of plus-twos to posters purportedly pontificating purposefully.
Illegitimi non carborundum
Multi Multa; Nemo Omnia Novit
Quote 0 0
mj11
voice_of_reason wrote:
Ok... another interesting one tonight.

Inbound Play...

Ref hands ball to player A on the sideline, begins 5 count.
Player A looks around, then heaves the ball cross court to Player B.
The ball is just about to Player B (mid-air), when the ref blows the whistle and calls a 5-second violation.

I'm assuming the ball has to be caught by Player B before the 5 seconds is up? I always thought it had to leave Player A's hands before the 5 count.


VofR, you're correct again. Ball only needs to be released before 5.
Quote 0 0
wiggum
VoR, what level of basketball are you watching where these scenarios are taking place? Did the official's whistle fall out of his mouth causing the delay? Just curious.

Whistleblower, question for you. At what point do you step in when there is an obvious clock malfunction at the end of a quarter? I am speaking of a delayed start at the end of a quarter. Do you stop play at all or just let things play out and sort them out at the end? As a player, our coach engrained the 1 dribble or pass per second clock in our heads, not perfect but usually a close way of knowing when the shot should be attempted by.
Quote 0 0
voiceofreason
Both scenerios happened at varsity games. first one was a boys game, second one a girls.
Proud purveyor of plus-twos to posters purportedly pontificating purposefully.
Illegitimi non carborundum
Multi Multa; Nemo Omnia Novit
Quote 0 0
packers_old
So the NCAA adopted the secondary defender not being able to take a charge within the half circle this year.

I had a discussion with a JV ref last night during our game. He believes the HS has the same rule, just not half circle of where players cannot take a charge.

I'm pretty sure there is not a rule about where a player can and cannot take a charge in HS. If an offensive player is out of control, he's out of control. If there was a rule on where players could not take legal charges, there would be an arc placed on the court.

What do you all think?
Quote 0 0
kenny78
packers wrote:
So the NCAA adopted the secondary defender not being able to take a charge within the half circle this year.

I had a discussion with a JV ref last night during our game. He believes the HS has the same rule, just not half circle of where players cannot take a charge.

I'm pretty sure there is not a rule about where a player can and cannot take a charge in HS. If an offensive player is out of control, he's out of control. If there was a rule on where players could not take legal charges, there would be an arc placed on the court.

What do you all think?



There is no area in high school where a charge cannot be called. That official is mistaken. I have discussed this with many friends who are officials because I always hear the "experts" in the stands screaming that the defender was too far under the basket.
Quote 0 0
whistleblower1
wiggum wrote:
VoR, what level of basketball are you watching where these scenarios are taking place? Did the official's whistle fall out of his mouth causing the delay? Just curious.

Whistleblower, question for you. At what point do you step in when there is an obvious clock malfunction at the end of a quarter? I am speaking of a delayed start at the end of a quarter. Do you stop play at all or just let things play out and sort them out at the end? As a player, our coach engrained the 1 dribble or pass per second clock in our heads, not perfect but usually a close way of knowing when the shot should be attempted by.


We are allowed to over-rule the clock if we have definite, first hand knowledge, of how much time has elapsed during play. This is due to us actually doing a physical/mental count during a live ball situation. We can not simply conclude that, "there just wasn't enough time left for all of that to happen". If there is less than 10 seconds left in a period, there is no reason to start a count in the backcourt, therefore, it will be difficult to correct timing errors during that play. As officials, we need to trust the person working the clock, that they are doing everything correctly according to the rules of time keeping.
Without officials, it would just be recess!
Quote 0 0
whistleblower1
kenny78 wrote:
packers wrote:
So the NCAA adopted the secondary defender not being able to take a charge within the half circle this year.

I had a discussion with a JV ref last night during our game. He believes the HS has the same rule, just not half circle of where players cannot take a charge.

I'm pretty sure there is not a rule about where a player can and cannot take a charge in HS. If an offensive player is out of control, he's out of control. If there was a rule on where players could not take legal charges, there would be an arc placed on the court.

What do you all think?



There is no area in high school where a charge cannot be called. That official is mistaken. I have discussed this with many friends who are officials because I always hear the "experts" in the stands screaming that the defender was too far under the basket.


The Federation has no such rule. Kenny is correct. The 3' arc rule is for the NCAA. A player control foul can be called anywhere on the floor; even right under the basket. Maybe your JV ref should stick to JV.
Without officials, it would just be recess!
Quote 0 0
wuggs
Does the national federation or WIAA provide referees guidance on how to handle an unruly spectator or is it left solely up to the ref's discretion i.e. what steps to take as far as a warning, expulsion, etc? Witnessed a ref call a fan a jerk the other night. The fan was way out of line but I thought the ref could have handled the situation more professionally.
Quote 0 0
wiggum
wuggs wrote:
Does the national federation or WIAA provide referees guidance on how to handle an unruly spectator or is it left solely up to the ref's discretion i.e. what steps to take as far as a warning, expulsion, etc? Witnessed a ref call a fan a jerk the other night. The fan was way out of line but I thought the ref could have handled the situation more professionally.


That is for on site game management to handle. The official must instuct them to have the fan removed. The official may say something to warn the fan and most will quiet down once they are singled out. If not, it's not in their best interest to stoop to their level. The NFHS rulebook does ask the officials to conduct themselves in an honorable, respectful manner.
Quote 0 0
hank7
highlightfilm wrote:
I'm not an official but stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and believe since the shot had left the shooters hands when the off ball foul occured, the basket counts and Team A shoots a double bonus since the foul was Team B's tenth. It's not an and one because the foul was not on the shooter.


As others have said, this is the correct call. The crowd will no doubt be going crazy though.
Quote 0 0
hank7
wuggs wrote:
Does the national federation or WIAA provide referees guidance on how to handle an unruly spectator or is it left solely up to the ref's discretion i.e. what steps to take as far as a warning, expulsion, etc? Witnessed a ref call a fan a jerk the other night. The fan was way out of line but I thought the ref could have handled the situation more professionally.


Never interact directly with a fan, you'll just get more. Notify the site manager to warn/remove him. I also notify that teams head coach at the same time.
Quote 0 0
wissportsnet

Boys Basketball Alumni Round-up: February 21st, from @ColtonWilson23 #wisbb -- https://t.co/0K6CZzZWpf https://t.co/715tfpBGVS

wissportsnet

WSN15: Boys Basketball Top Teams #12 -- Two NCAA Division I players at one WIAA Division 4 school = state champions… https://t.co/1MThqzce9L

wissportsnet

Predicting winners of every state wrestling title plus a look By The Numbers, from @Nate_Woelfel -… https://t.co/HgU1bLP7d6

wissportsnet

Join the free Boys Basketball Playoff Pick 'Em Contest; Staff picks coming Tuesday #wisbb -- https://t.co/Y6yTA3OgP8 https://t.co/hA6Uyw9uje